cheating...

[One Brow]

Many of these non-monogamous customs are driven by male dominated societies where the woman's desires are hardly considered if at all, are they not?. I'm no expert so I'm completely open to being educated on the subject.

Regardless of whatever cultural norms exist I believe jealousy and security are biologically driven emotions. I think people can try to take a rational view and I think they are often sunk by deep-seated emotional reactions to someone we are in a relationship engaging in sexual activity with a rival.

I don't think there is a male-dominated culture that allows polyandry/polyamory/group marriage. So, while I would agree the allowing polygyny as the only form of multiple marriage is an excellent indicator of a male-dominated society, it is disingenuous to describe that more generally as "non-monogamous cultures", since only one particular type of non-monogamy is allowed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_marriage

I agree that cultural values can be so ingrained that we feel jealousy/insecurity even when we know there is no rational basis for it. I also agree that jealousy and insecurity are biologically driven. However, they are also affected by those ingrained culture values. You can only be jealous of something you think can be possessed or owned (when was the last time you were jealous of air?); you can only be insecure about something you think you will lose (when was the last time the setting moon made you insecure?). If you regard a mate as something that can not be possessed or owned, if you regard their commitment as based on something other than monogamy, then the prerequisites for feeling jealousy/insecurity do not form.

[One Brow]

There's no excuse for cheating.

I agree. The very word "cheating" means you are breaking the rules. You should never break the rules you agree to with your partner.

[Hartsock]

I agree. The very word "cheating" means you are breaking the rules. You should never break the rules you agree to with your partner.

If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.

[One Brow]

If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.

Depends on your lifestyle.

[Hartsock]

Depends on your lifestyle.

If you got pass out drunk and bang some skank in a back alley, I guess that could be viewed and just happening. Anything other than that ?

[jimmy eat jazz]

I'm impressed by how reasoned and measured the responses have been to this thread. Here's my take, for what it's worth.

If it happened 4 years ago, and she's been faithful since, and you love her, and she loves you, I would advise you to forgive her and move on.

I think you're probably assuming that you would never, ever consider cheating on her. But I think one day you might very well find this assumption to be sorely tested.

I personally have mixed feelings about monogamy. The older I get, the more I come to conclude that monogamy is for many people an unreasonable demand/expectation. Some people are well-suited for monogamy, but others, both men and women, are not. Similarly, some people have very strong sex drives, others not so strong. To me, demanding that someone who is not well-suited to monogamy to be monogamous his/her own life is not too different from demanding that someone with same sex attractions refrain from acting on those attractions. (It should be clear from this that I see nothing inherently morally wrong with sex outside of marriage. I don't think sex all that big of a deal to merit so much moral angst.) There is only so much 'hypocrisy' and moral failing around sex in our culture because our culture has chosen to make such a big deal about it and adopt such a rigid religious-centric view of it--and marriage.

I believe monogamy to be a mostly cultural construct and not an 'eternal' or 'natural' moral truth. It has not been the norm for as long as humans have existed--at least for men (although presumably they've been having sex with someone and not all of them are gay), and certainly has not been the norm among the privileged classes or among the powerful.

Also, let's face it. Many people are not getting their emotional, psychological, and sexual needs met by their spouses, but are not at the same time willing to give up their children or their financial security or their marriage. Human relationships are complex and full of morally gray area, and over time, I find the black and white moral perspectives on these and other issues offered by a sexually uptight religious world view to be less and less satisfying, morally, intellectually, and just about every other way.

[jimmy eat jazz]

If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.

You would be surprised. I know from substantial experience that this statement is not true. It can be and often is very easy to cheat, and it can and does just happen.

[HeavenHarris]

bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.

[jimmy eat jazz]

bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.

I don't disagree. Relationships don't function well without trust, honesty, etc. Don't confuse my general feelings on the broader subject of monogamy from what I think about the specific case at hand.

It may or may not be a religious issue in this specific case, but Western Culture's views of sex, marriage, and morality are infused through and through with religious beliefs/philosophies so much so that they simply cannot be separated. Thus, while in this case our friend may not see this as a religious issue, the cultural values that likely are influencing how he processes this event, have a definite and strong religious component. For whatever that's worth.

I'm not trying to derail the post into a religious discussion either. Just sharing some things I've been thinking about that are somewhat related to the topic. You can take or leave them, doesn't matter to me.

As a side note, I travel a lot for work and see first hand a great deal of sexual shenanigans going on. It has gotten me to thinking more about this issue and trying to understand it.

[Gameface]

bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.

Yeah, basically this. You can't excuse past acts of deception by moralizing the subject of the deception. The crime, in my opinion, is more the deception than the act.

[asian_roger]

To clarify, the reason we are not married is that we went attend different colleges from two different states that are very far away. She was my highschool sweetheart and it became long distance relationship. We visit each other about 4 times a year, almost every school break and summer for weeks at a time. The event was only once, but it was multiple sex acts with one person she dated for months behind my back 4 years ago. The point is that (me being idiotic) is that I didn't know it was sexual. One friend ratted her out but thought it was just a kissing session here and there and all her best friends covered her back and said it was nothing sexual (but they knew everything). Yesterday, one of the friends felt bad for me and told me the truth and I had to pressure her for an hour to get it out of her.

I asked her multiple times if it was sexual and she said "no", that's why I forgave her after many months. It was the only and first cheat was when we graduated high school and split off to go to different colleges (and a million other reasons), we were both ridiculously busy and I understand how she may have felt lonely. If I had known it was sexual, I would dropped her ASAP, but she lied to me for 4 years straight because she knew what had happened. Now its at the point where we have become very emotionally attached to each other, I'm positive she had be loyal for the past 4 years. Its just disturbing as **** and I'm depressed. I've been tested a few times but I raised with extreme dedication and loyalty, so I would never cheat back. Honestly, I think everyone will say that I should left when it immediately happened (regardless of she did with the other person). It is a very bad sign that someone had to rat her out in the first/second place.

i know a lot of people on Jazzfanz is older than I am and have more unique experiences, that is why your answer is important. Thanks again.

[PKM]

To clarify, the reason we are not married is that we went attend different colleges from two different states that are very far away. She was my highschool sweetheart and it became long distance relationship. We visit each other about 4 times a year, almost every school break and summer for weeks at a time. It was only once, but it was multiple sex acts with one person she dated for months behind my back 4 years ago. The point is that (me being idiotic) is that I didn't know it was sexual. One friend ratted her out but thought it was just a kissing session here and there and all her best friends covered her back and said it was nothing sexual (but they knew everything). Yesterday, one of the friends felt bad for me and told me the truth and I had to pressure her for an hour to get it out of her.

I asked her multiple times if it was sexual and she said "no", that's why I forgave her after many months. It was the only and first cheat was when we graduated high school and split off to go to different colleges (and a million other reasons), we were both ridiculously busy and I understand how she may have felt lonely. If I had known it was sexual, I would dropped her ASAP, but she lied to me for 4 years straight because she knew what had happened. Now its at the point where we have become very emotionally attached to each other, I'm positive she had be loyal for the past 4 years. Its just disturbing as **** and I'm depressed. I've been tested a few times but I raised with extreme dedication and loyalty, so I would never cheat back. Honestly, I think everyone will say that I should left when it immediately happened (regardless of she did with the other person). It is a very bad sign that someone had to rat her out in the first/second place.

i know a lot of people on Jazzfanz is older than I am and have more unique experiences, that is why your answer is important. Thanks again.

Heed no advice, but only take it all in .. in the end this is about you, a unique individual, and her, a unique individual. You have nothing to prove, to anyone. Life is too precious and too short to do anything but find love and fun. Do it.

[Zulu]

I agree with PKM.... Anyone who says the would do this or that if they were being cheated on don't know if that is how it would really go down....

Until it happens to you, you really don't know and these guys don't know you, your girl friend or your relationship...

Take time and then make the decision!!!

[AshleyArmchair]

Ye shall not commit adultery

[PKM]

Ye shall not commit adultery

STFU. Alts are funny, but not here. Show some class.