Do you still want to see Big Al shipped?

[Brown Notes]

Al Jefferson's role is pretty black and white. His strength is being 'the guy'. Either he's you're main offensive guy and you pound the ball through him or he's not. He's not an accessory piece. He's not someone who pops off the bench for instant offense. This is why some of the ill-conceived Team USAs and other 'super teams' where it's assumed that you can make an amalgamation of talented players and simply plug them into new roles and be successful. That's what we're assuming we'll do with Al. We won't get get the same type/rate of production. The option is quite simply between A. keep Al and have him be the focal-point of our offense or B. let him go. It's that easy. There really isn't any real-world middle ground.

The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

Al will dominate the offense more or less when he's on the court, but that doesn't mean he has to have the ball run through him all the time or that he has to play star or even starter minutes. IMO this guy could be devastating off the bench if he's willing to do it. Way better than Bench Sap.

[NAOS]

I've long said that Al off the bench + heavily policed on his defensive effort would be fine with me.

It's the $$$ that has always turned me off. I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 teams will be willing to pay more than I would. My cap is a front-loaded 3 year deal averaging $10 mil/year. I'd also tell him at the signing that I was envisioning him far more in a complementary role.

In other words, I don't see myself being happy with any likely outcome. Shipping him out is preferable.

[infection]

The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

Al will dominate the offense more or less when he's on the court, but that doesn't mean he has to have the ball run through him all the time or that he has to play star or even starter minutes. IMO this guy could be devastating off the bench if he's willing to do it. Way better than Bench Sap.

I'm not talking about minutes played -- I'm talking about role played. Whether Al is playing 30 minutes or 35 minutes (he's averaging 33, FWIW) for us is irrelevant as he's our starter and centerpiece of our offense. Whether or not he likes Enes and wants him to succeed or not is completely independent of the discussion of whether or not Al would be good in that role, and not simply whether or not he'd accept it. This is all irrelevant as well because Corbin will not bring him off the bench. We have this idea of resigning him based on hypotheticals that have never been implemented nor is there evidence that they would be. Jefferson would start his entire contract. Millsap has never been a focal-point, which makes it much more appropriate to compare how he would do off the bench in comparison to as a starter. We've also seen him off the bench behind Boozer (for much longer than we should have because, like Al, we should have known sooner that it was time to move forward). But, alas, I'm not a Al vs. Millsap guy, I'm just a Favors and Kanter need to tart and get minutes in any way possible guy.

[orangello]

If you can get Al for 8 million and not more, and he is willing to come off the bench, then keep him. He is the perfect "instant offense" bench player. You want 1-2 players on the bench that can create for themselves and the rest defensive players to hold leads. Al and Burks are those players. You put three defensive players around them and they are the best bench in the league. Three good defenders, and then on offense throw it in to Al, he holds it for 15 secs, if he can't get a shot off, out to Burks so he can get to the FT line.

If Al wants more, or wants to start, see ya.

Big Al is not going to be coming off the bench for the Jazz for at least another 3 seasons. I do not trust Corbin enough to bring him off the bench even if Kanter and Favors prove to be better players at the time. If you don't believe me just look at Hayward vs Foye.

[orangello]

I've long said that Al off the bench + heavily policed on his defensive effort would be fine with me.

It's the $$$ that has always turned me off. I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 teams will be willing to pay more than I would. My cap is a front-loaded 3 year deal averaging $10 mil/year. I'd also tell him at the signing that I was envisioning him far more in a complementary role.

In other words, I don't see myself being happy with any likely outcome. Shipping him out is preferable.

I wish I read this first before I posted because that almost perfectly says what I wanted to say.

[JazzyD]

The vote numbers are much closer than they would've been before the season started. It seems that more people are coming around to the idea of Al staying.

[addictionary]

Yeppers.

[Nate505]

I don't even object to Al's play that much, but for the sake of the youth I'd rather see him go or come off the bench, and I don't think the latter is happening.

[DutchJazzer]

The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

in blowouts al does not have to play

[Brown Notes]

in blowouts al does not have to play

Waiting for the part where a point is made.

[DutchJazzer]

Waiting for the part where a point is made.

it is logical do i have to explain it.

of course big als minutes are lower on avg when jazz win.
because blowout certain games he did not have to come of the bench in the 4th.
so it is kinda skewed

[Brown Notes]

So you are saying his play is not better with less court time? Sitting out the 4th would not affect earlier play, I'm talking about taking him out earlier in the 1st and 3rd.

[theNBAnerd]

Agreed..... we keep whoever is cheaper, or whoever fetches less return in a trade.

that logic ignores the ways in which the two guys are different. if you make your decision based on money/trade value terms, you'll forget that the two guys are very different in basketball terms.

paul plays better off the ball, defends more positions and can help you win games without eating 20 possessions. al is good - even elite - at one thing, but he has to have the ball in his hands for that one thing to matter. so the question should be, which guy can still be on this team and not impede the progress of favors and kanter? as long as al is here, neither of those two is going to have enough of an impact on games to figure out how to get better. the same isn't necessarily true of paul.

does an al/paul tandem get us to the top of the mountain? quite obviously not. does a favors/kanter duo do it? we don't know yet, but we won't know as long as al is on the team using 20 possessions a game and bringing several others to a grinding halt.

[Core4]

I haven`t done the numbers myself, but doesn`t Paul`s numbers look really bad when he`s playing without Al on the floor?

In theory, Favors` defence and Al`s offence should compliment each other perfectly. It would also give room for Enes to be the primary back up for both positions, giving him a lot of playing time.

In theory, yes.
I'm still not happy with the offense completely stopping once the ball is passed inside to Al. But Jefferson and Favors could be a decent combo, given that we probably won't be attracting great FA's. And I think Kanter is still pretty raw. Neither he nor Favors are much of a force offensively, so having Al gives the Jazz a legitimate scoring threat. If the FO is thinking of keeping either Jefferson or Millsap, my bet is on Al. Not the perfect scenario, IMO, but the one I think is most likely to happen.

I've also been impressed with the improvement DeMarre has made from last season to this one. I no longer cringe when he shoots. I wonder if the Jazz are thinking about keeping him as a starter at SF. Marvin could come off the bench or the Jazz could trade his contract.

I agree with the Foye observation. I'd rather have Burks or Hayward start at SG.


One other thought on Big Al: you can really tell he's been mentoring both Enes and Derrick. In the absence of a legitimate big man coach, perhaps he's worth keeping around, especially if he's willing to see his minutes decrease gradually as Kanter and Favors get more. The one thing we all forget is that the Jazz need 3 good bigs (96 mins / 3 = 32). Lose Al AND Paul and suddenly the jazz strength becomes a weakness, unless a very good big can be signed to replace them. With the Warriors and Jazz making strong playoff pushes, it's likely a draft pick (both likely in the late teens/early 20's) won't be helping us much, other than end-of-bench depth.

[JGolds]

. The one thing we all forget is that the Jazz need 3 good bigs (96 mins / 3 = 32). Lose Al AND Paul and suddenly the jazz strength becomes a weakness, unless a very good big can be signed to replace them. With the Warriors and Jazz making strong playoff pushes, it's likely a draft pick (both likely in the late teens/early 20's) won't be helping us much, other than end-of-bench depth.

thanks for agreeing have said this all along. i feel bad that millsap looks like the odd man out but honestly he looks like the one leaving. we need three good bigs. al fav and kan are all basiclly interchangeable. and we have to pick either sap or al or we could loose both, and then we will be left looking for a FA to sign to be our other big, and i can honestly say, i liekt he way al looks more then the other bigs in FA.