View Poll Results: Keep Big Al or not?

Voters
72. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I would like to retain him, paying him his current salary

    3 4.17%
  • No way!

    35 48.61%
  • Yes, but for less money

    33 45.83%
  • Foye is fools gold!

    1 1.39%
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 94
  1. #46
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,367
    Total Rep Points
    1333
    Rep Adjustment Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    Al Jefferson's role is pretty black and white. His strength is being 'the guy'. Either he's you're main offensive guy and you pound the ball through him or he's not. He's not an accessory piece. He's not someone who pops off the bench for instant offense. This is why some of the ill-conceived Team USAs and other 'super teams' where it's assumed that you can make an amalgamation of talented players and simply plug them into new roles and be successful. That's what we're assuming we'll do with Al. We won't get get the same type/rate of production. The option is quite simply between A. keep Al and have him be the focal-point of our offense or B. let him go. It's that easy. There really isn't any real-world middle ground.
    The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

    Al will dominate the offense more or less when he's on the court, but that doesn't mean he has to have the ball run through him all the time or that he has to play star or even starter minutes. IMO this guy could be devastating off the bench if he's willing to do it. Way better than Bench Sap.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  2. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,781
    Total Rep Points
    4567
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    I've long said that Al off the bench + heavily policed on his defensive effort would be fine with me.

    It's the $$$ that has always turned me off. I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 teams will be willing to pay more than I would. My cap is a front-loaded 3 year deal averaging $10 mil/year. I'd also tell him at the signing that I was envisioning him far more in a complementary role.

    In other words, I don't see myself being happy with any likely outcome. Shipping him out is preferable.

  3. #48
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,229
    Total Rep Points
    6500
    Rep Adjustment Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

    Al will dominate the offense more or less when he's on the court, but that doesn't mean he has to have the ball run through him all the time or that he has to play star or even starter minutes. IMO this guy could be devastating off the bench if he's willing to do it. Way better than Bench Sap.
    I'm not talking about minutes played -- I'm talking about role played. Whether Al is playing 30 minutes or 35 minutes (he's averaging 33, FWIW) for us is irrelevant as he's our starter and centerpiece of our offense. Whether or not he likes Enes and wants him to succeed or not is completely independent of the discussion of whether or not Al would be good in that role, and not simply whether or not he'd accept it. This is all irrelevant as well because Corbin will not bring him off the bench. We have this idea of resigning him based on hypotheticals that have never been implemented nor is there evidence that they would be. Jefferson would start his entire contract. Millsap has never been a focal-point, which makes it much more appropriate to compare how he would do off the bench in comparison to as a starter. We've also seen him off the bench behind Boozer (for much longer than we should have because, like Al, we should have known sooner that it was time to move forward). But, alas, I'm not a Al vs. Millsap guy, I'm just a Favors and Kanter need to tart and get minutes in any way possible guy.

  4. #49
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Draft BPA
    Posts
    13,579
    Total Rep Points
    16098
    Rep Adjustment Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    If you can get Al for 8 million and not more, and he is willing to come off the bench, then keep him. He is the perfect "instant offense" bench player. You want 1-2 players on the bench that can create for themselves and the rest defensive players to hold leads. Al and Burks are those players. You put three defensive players around them and they are the best bench in the league. Three good defenders, and then on offense throw it in to Al, he holds it for 15 secs, if he can't get a shot off, out to Burks so he can get to the FT line.

    If Al wants more, or wants to start, see ya.
    Big Al is not going to be coming off the bench for the Jazz for at least another 3 seasons. I do not trust Corbin enough to bring him off the bench even if Kanter and Favors prove to be better players at the time. If you don't believe me just look at Hayward vs Foye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  5. #50
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Draft BPA
    Posts
    13,579
    Total Rep Points
    16098
    Rep Adjustment Power
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    I've long said that Al off the bench + heavily policed on his defensive effort would be fine with me.

    It's the $$$ that has always turned me off. I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 teams will be willing to pay more than I would. My cap is a front-loaded 3 year deal averaging $10 mil/year. I'd also tell him at the signing that I was envisioning him far more in a complementary role.

    In other words, I don't see myself being happy with any likely outcome. Shipping him out is preferable.
    I wish I read this first before I posted because that almost perfectly says what I wanted to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  6. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    500
    Total Rep Points
    314
    Rep Adjustment Power
    11
    The vote numbers are much closer than they would've been before the season started. It seems that more people are coming around to the idea of Al staying.

  7. #52
    Senior Member addictionary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    In my head, trying to get out more...
    Posts
    5,408
    Total Rep Points
    13745
    Rep Adjustment Power
    55
    Yeppers.


    David Locke: "Because what happens in this league is, people start shooting threes and they get soft and don’t want contact and then they just stay out there all the time. You’re not going to get soft, are you?"
    Enes Kanter: "I kind of live in the paint, man. Come on. I won’t get soft. Don’t worry about that."

    4.17.14

  8. #53
    Lazy Nate505's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, CO
    Posts
    5,358
    Total Rep Points
    7616
    Rep Adjustment Power
    42
    I don't even object to Al's play that much, but for the sake of the youth I'd rather see him go or come off the bench, and I don't think the latter is happening.

  9. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,233
    Total Rep Points
    4007
    Rep Adjustment Power
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

    in blowouts al does not have to play
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  10. #55
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,367
    Total Rep Points
    1333
    Rep Adjustment Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    in blowouts al does not have to play
    Waiting for the part where a point is made.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  11. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,233
    Total Rep Points
    4007
    Rep Adjustment Power
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    Waiting for the part where a point is made.
    it is logical do i have to explain it.

    of course big als minutes are lower on avg when jazz win.
    because blowout certain games he did not have to come of the bench in the 4th.
    so it is kinda skewed
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  12. #57
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,367
    Total Rep Points
    1333
    Rep Adjustment Power
    16
    So you are saying his play is not better with less court time? Sitting out the 4th would not affect earlier play, I'm talking about taking him out earlier in the 1st and 3rd.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  13. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,705
    Total Rep Points
    963
    Rep Adjustment Power
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Agreed..... we keep whoever is cheaper, or whoever fetches less return in a trade.
    that logic ignores the ways in which the two guys are different. if you make your decision based on money/trade value terms, you'll forget that the two guys are very different in basketball terms.

    paul plays better off the ball, defends more positions and can help you win games without eating 20 possessions. al is good - even elite - at one thing, but he has to have the ball in his hands for that one thing to matter. so the question should be, which guy can still be on this team and not impede the progress of favors and kanter? as long as al is here, neither of those two is going to have enough of an impact on games to figure out how to get better. the same isn't necessarily true of paul.

    does an al/paul tandem get us to the top of the mountain? quite obviously not. does a favors/kanter duo do it? we don't know yet, but we won't know as long as al is on the team using 20 possessions a game and bringing several others to a grinding halt.
    check out the jazzbros.com blog for more on the jazz.

  14. #59
    I Love Warm Hugs Core4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dante's inferno
    Posts
    14,464
    Total Rep Points
    25055
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedda Gambler View Post
    I haven`t done the numbers myself, but doesn`t Paul`s numbers look really bad when he`s playing without Al on the floor?

    In theory, Favors` defence and Al`s offence should compliment each other perfectly. It would also give room for Enes to be the primary back up for both positions, giving him a lot of playing time.
    In theory, yes.
    I'm still not happy with the offense completely stopping once the ball is passed inside to Al. But Jefferson and Favors could be a decent combo, given that we probably won't be attracting great FA's. And I think Kanter is still pretty raw. Neither he nor Favors are much of a force offensively, so having Al gives the Jazz a legitimate scoring threat. If the FO is thinking of keeping either Jefferson or Millsap, my bet is on Al. Not the perfect scenario, IMO, but the one I think is most likely to happen.

    I've also been impressed with the improvement DeMarre has made from last season to this one. I no longer cringe when he shoots. I wonder if the Jazz are thinking about keeping him as a starter at SF. Marvin could come off the bench or the Jazz could trade his contract.

    I agree with the Foye observation. I'd rather have Burks or Hayward start at SG.


    One other thought on Big Al: you can really tell he's been mentoring both Enes and Derrick. In the absence of a legitimate big man coach, perhaps he's worth keeping around, especially if he's willing to see his minutes decrease gradually as Kanter and Favors get more. The one thing we all forget is that the Jazz need 3 good bigs (96 mins / 3 = 32). Lose Al AND Paul and suddenly the jazz strength becomes a weakness, unless a very good big can be signed to replace them. With the Warriors and Jazz making strong playoff pushes, it's likely a draft pick (both likely in the late teens/early 20's) won't be helping us much, other than end-of-bench depth.

  15. #60
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,461
    Total Rep Points
    2337
    Rep Adjustment Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by MoTown16 View Post
    . The one thing we all forget is that the Jazz need 3 good bigs (96 mins / 3 = 32). Lose Al AND Paul and suddenly the jazz strength becomes a weakness, unless a very good big can be signed to replace them. With the Warriors and Jazz making strong playoff pushes, it's likely a draft pick (both likely in the late teens/early 20's) won't be helping us much, other than end-of-bench depth.
    thanks for agreeing have said this all along. i feel bad that millsap looks like the odd man out but honestly he looks like the one leaving. we need three good bigs. al fav and kan are all basiclly interchangeable. and we have to pick either sap or al or we could loose both, and then we will be left looking for a FA to sign to be our other big, and i can honestly say, i liekt he way al looks more then the other bigs in FA.
    “Silence is golden, and gold is up these days, so silence is a solid investment.”
    ― Jarod Kintz


  16.  

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •