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  1. #1
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Burks as horrible on defense as Foye

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...burksal01.html

    And that's playing against scrubs where Foye is going against top flight talent night in and night out. Maybe he should stop gambling on defense so much, I don't know. Maybe he just needs more time to figure it out.

  2. #2
    Senior Member vegas's Avatar
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    Going by defensive rating here?
    Chop it!!!

  3. #3
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    There's a reason he's riding pine.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    I've been saying it long before the stats could prove it.

    Burks is terrible on defense. He tries to get up and play too close to the guy he is guarding, which doesnt help him stay in front of his guy, and makes him committ fouls easily. He looks weak playing defense too. I cringe watching him play defense, because like everyone else, I want him to be really good. His offense is good enough he should play though and learn how to play defense.

  5. #5
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    He'll learn. The fact that he is playing close shows his aggressiveness, but I think he needs to balance that with watching film and learning the tendencies of the people he is guarding.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zulu's Avatar
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    I don't buy it...
    http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o604/sainsbu/ProfessionalTank_zps6f4cddad.png

  7. #7
    Senior Member pickledXgrandma's Avatar
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    Burks>Kobe

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  9. #8
    Senior Member vegas's Avatar
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    Chop it!!!

  10. #9
    Senior Member Pouyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegas View Post
    /thread

  11. #10
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Bulls are a pretty damn good defensive team bro.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  12. #11
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegas View Post
    This is the same old argument as PER listing Jefferson top ten. One or two might sneak through the cracks in the top ten, but after that it doesn't miss many and becomes more reliable. It's not like anyone is saying Durant, LBJ, Kobe, CP3, Anthony, Duncan, Lopez, Wade, or Westbrook sucks because Jefferson is also listed. These stats are pretty reliable when it comes down to the bottom of the pile.

    Burks has the same DRtg as Foye but a 16 point deficit in ORtg. Corbin is justified in his bench Burks no brainer.

    Outside all that, it looks more like a sophomore slump to me. Burks has regressed in several categories. That comes with the comfortable in your skin territory.

  13. #12
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    Foye has been ridiculously hot. I'd bench anybody for Foye over the last 5. That's just game management.

    The problem is Foye will go back to missing and his minutes won't go down. I'm not convinced Ty understands what Foye's usefulness is. Ty thinks he has a complete game, or his experience is a big deal. In reality he's a shooter. It's no big deal to give a shooter 10 minutes one night, and 30 the next. That's what shooters are.

  14. #13
    Senior Member sojodave's Avatar
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    Burks > Torrey Ellis

  15. #14
    Senior Member vegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    This is the same old argument as PER listing Jefferson top ten. One or two might sneak through the cracks in the top ten, but after that it doesn't miss many and becomes more reliable. It's not like anyone is saying Durant, LBJ, Kobe, CP3, Anthony, Duncan, Lopez, Wade, or Westbrook sucks because Jefferson is also listed. These stats are pretty reliable when it comes down to the bottom of the pile.

    Burks has the same DRtg as Foye but a 16 point deficit in ORtg. Corbin is justified in his bench Burks no brainer.

    Outside all that, it looks more like a sophomore slump to me. Burks has regressed in several categories. That comes with the comfortable in your skin territory.
    Not arguing against, but man you didn't even link Foye's stats. So I looked them up , and looked up the top ten to gain perspective on how bad things are. To your poiint the top Drtg player for the league has always been a renowned defender.

    I also take it with a grain of salt. Drtg is a for a player is basically defensive +/-. It can show trends, or a player can be hammered by his teammates. Ortg on the other hand is specific to the individual.

    The sad fact is that Boozer is not bad enough to pull down the Bulls D this year, who knows, maybe he even learned something. Lunatic also makes a good point that Boozer is helped by a good defensive team. Interestingly, if you hadicap him the difference between the Jazz & Bulls overall (~5.5 pts), only Favors, Evans and Jefferson have a better rating.

    If somebody has synergy, I would love to see some of their defensive stats on Burks and Foye to see if there is additional insight.

    While we are looking at the Drtg, look at the entire team, worst to best:
    1. Mo
    2. Hayward/Foye
    3. Burks/Marvin
    4. Pearl
    5. Tinsley
    6. Kanter
    7. Murphy/Carroll
    8. Sap
    9. Jefferson/Evans
    10. Favors

    So we should also discuss that Marvin and Hayward are also as bad a as Foye.

    What does this mean? For me, it means that the Drtg is a bit all over the board for the Jazz. The range is 101-111. Starters and reserves end up on both ends of the list, and they don't correlate with many opinions that are common:
    Hayward and Marvin are usually thought of as good defenders, AL as bad (at least pick 'n' roll). I would also expect Mo to be the best of the pgs.

    I am open to hear that there is a relevant patten to the above list. I just don't see it right off the bat. The only thing that jumps out is that the team is #21 in the leaugue, no bueno.
    Chop it!!!

  16. #15
    Senior Member Weezur's Avatar
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    Whoa Hayward is 2nd worst on the team?
    /thread

    Whoa Jefferson is 9th best on the team?
    /thread

    Whoa Mo Williams is worse than Tinsley?
    /thread

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