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  1. #16
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    He has also said that when he found out a deal was leaked he cut off future deals with that gm and told them he wouldn't do a deal again.


    I don't know if thats a good idea to do that. He could be cutting himself off from future deals. No wonder we don't trade. KOC has made a bunch of enemies.
    Yes, like when NJ leaked the Deron deal to ESPN before Greg could call Deron, KOC didn't make a deal with NJ ever again until the next November when he traded them Okur.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmare3983 View Post
    A couple of tweets about Memphis:

    Ryan Wolstat: I believe some teams aren't pleased with the way new Memphis group has conducted trade talks, and the Raptors are one of those teams Twitter @WolstatSun
    Ryan Wolstat: Memphis has been leaking info like crazy throughout this process. It's a new front office without a lot of experience. Twitter @WolstatSun
    Didn't memphis leak the Brewer deal about a month before it happened?
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  3. #18
    First BF League CHAMP nightmare3983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    Didn't memphis leak the Brewer deal about a month before it happened?
    I don't remember.

  4. #19
    Premium Member Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    That clearly proves that KOC is still in charge of trades.
    Of course he is. Was there ever any doubt?
    The Jazz needed an Assistant GM. Almost every other team in the league has one. Utah did not and I think that cam down to two factors: 1) Jerry Sloan was heavily involved in personnel evaluations and decisions; 2) Utah had very little roster turnover each year. When you're only looking at perhaps 3-4 roster spots each season and two of those will be filled by your draft picks, you (as in Greg/Larry H. Miller) can go cheap on the management side, especially with a coach who demands major involvement.

    However, next season will be completely different. Jazz only have a few guaranteed contracts. Major negotiations may/may not happen with Al and Paul. The reason Lindsey was given the title of "GM" is because he was an assistant GM with SA. Jazz would have not been granted permission to speak with him if the move was lateral. However, once KOC was given his fancy new title, that opened up the GM job for Lindsey. Because of it being a promotion, Spurs had to give permission for Lindsey to interview. Well, at least teams are pretty strongly advised NOT to interfere if someone is offered a chance at a promotion.

  5. #20
    Premium Member Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    Yes, like when NJ leaked the Deron deal to ESPN before Greg could call Deron, KOC didn't make a deal with NJ ever again until the next November when he traded them Okur.
    I think he was referencing the AK deal that fell apart after it was leaked. I remember KOC being absolutely livid about that one.

  6. #21
    First BF League CHAMP nightmare3983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoTown16 View Post
    Of course he is. Was there ever any doubt?
    The Jazz needed an Assistant GM. Almost every other team in the league has one. Utah did not and I think that cam down to two factors: 1) Jerry Sloan was heavily involved in personnel evaluations and decisions; 2) Utah had very little roster turnover each year. When you're only looking at perhaps 3-4 roster spots each season and two of those will be filled by your draft picks, you (as in Greg/Larry H. Miller) can go cheap on the management side, especially with a coach who demands major involvement.

    However, next season will be completely different. Jazz only have a few guaranteed contracts. Major negotiations may/may not happen with Al and Paul. The reason Lindsey was given the title of "GM" is because he was an assistant GM with SA. Jazz would have not been granted permission to speak with him if the move was lateral. However, once KOC was given his fancy new title, that opened up the GM job for Lindsey. Because of it being a promotion, Spurs had to give permission for Lindsey to interview. Well, at least teams are pretty strongly advised NOT to interfere if someone is offered a chance at a promotion.
    Phoenix didn't roll with that. They made Elston Turner stay and then picked Lindsey Hunter over him as their new head coach.

  7. #22
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    My take on the Lindsey hire was that KOC had said some harsh things about Paul Milsap's agent after Paul signed the Portland Posion Offer. There are probably others agents that were miffed at KOC and had no other contact within the Jazz organization. I thought that Lindsey was brought in to talk with agents when KOC couldn't. Its a great way to negotiate--good guy/bad guy or car salesman and floor manager. the Millers would understand that set-up.
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  8. #23
    Premium Member Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    My take on the Lindsey hire was that KOC had said some harsh things about Paul Milsap's agent after Paul signed the Portland Posion Offer. There are probably others agents that were miffed at KOC and had no other contact within the Jazz organization. I thought that Lindsey was brought in to talk with agents when KOC couldn't. Its a great way to negotiate--good guy/bad guy or car salesman and floor manager. the Millers would understand that set-up.
    Perhaps. But Paul's agents are rookies with no other clients (his uncle and an attorney friend, IIRC). Pro agents know the game; they're used to negotiations which sometimes get tense or contentious. And KOC generally doesn't discuss anything with the media. Agents and players have to like that about him. I think the sheer volume of work to do this off-season was the driving force behind the hire. They knew they wanted Lindsey so the only way to get him was to make it a promotion from the assistant job he already had. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's not also an understanding/promise in place that Lindsey will truly take over when KOC retires in a handful of years.

  9. #24
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    This was disheartening.

  10. #25
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
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    So next time our team sucks and we're disappointed the team can't make any moves, just take a look around and point that finger back at yourselves because the JazzFanz populace has, once again, thwarted genius on the part of KOC.

    Honestly, it's amazing that over the years the FO has insinuated how clueless the fans are to how things run, but now he turns around to further insinuate that those same ignorant fans and radio idiots are handcuffing his master plans?

  11. #26
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    Don't most teams leak info about trades.
    They know the media will report it immediately.
    Have to think they even do it on purpose for various reasons.
    How come KOC doesn't point the finger at all teams.

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  13. #27
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    So next time our team sucks and we're disappointed the team can't make any moves, just take a look around and point that finger back at yourselves because the JazzFanz populace has, once again, thwarted genius on the part of KOC.

    Honestly, it's amazing that over the years the FO has insinuated how clueless the fans are to how things run, but now he turns around to further insinuate that those same ignorant fans and radio idiots are handcuffing his master plans?
    Just listened to it. I don't think he was insinuating anything about fans in particular. I actually thought it was a pretty good interview. As for the efficiency argument, if he really buys into points per shot as much as he said (not a great stat, albeit better than raw FG%), there's no way he thinks Al is a really good player. He had some positive things to say about Gordo, Demarre and Paul, especially in regard to adding to their respective games.

    The best part of the interview was the talk about the cap, and how the Jazz might be in a really good position if they save their cap space through to next season's trade deadline. This was complemented by the talk of not making a trade where you take on salary that makes future deals impossible. If this is the tack the Jazz are taking, they're dong the right thing. I think it's unlikely they make a deal this season that adds salary next season unless they're blown away. Further, I think it's unlikely they sign mediocre players to long deals this summer that would hurt their flexibility when teams are scrambling to get under the LT line next season. Maybe I'm only hearing what I want to hear, but the interview certainly reminded me of how good the Jazz FO has been and likely will continue to be.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  14. #28
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    The best part of the interview was the talk about the cap, and how the Jazz might be in a really good position if they save their cap space through to next season's trade deadline.
    Na na na na
    Na na na na
    Hey hey hey
    Bi GAl Jefferson!
    No Mediocrity

  15. #29
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    The best part of the interview was the talk about the cap, and how the Jazz might be in a really good position if they save their cap space through to next season's trade deadline. This was complemented by the talk of not making a trade where you take on salary that makes future deals impossible. If this is the tack the Jazz are taking, they're dong the right thing. I think it's unlikely they make a deal this season that adds salary next season unless they're blown away. Further, I think it's unlikely they sign mediocre players to long deals this summer that would hurt their flexibility when teams are scrambling to get under the LT line next season. Maybe I'm only hearing what I want to hear, but the interview certainly reminded me of how good the Jazz FO has been and likely will continue to be.
    When I heard that I thought that the one type of deal the Jazz might do would be trade an expiring deal, such as Al, for a deal that expires next season. Basically renting a guy for one season so that they have the flexibility of an expiring next trade deadline.

    But if the CBA will allow the team to just go into the next season with a bunch of cap space then the Jazz might just let Al walk, and go into next season with a small payroll. Then they could pull all kinds of deals next year and take back whatever they wanted.

    Lots of options.
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  16. #30
    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Na na na na
    Na na na na
    Hey hey hey
    Bi GAl Jefferson!
    Exactly my thoughts as well.

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