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  1. #31
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    Okay, well here are the records of those bottom-of-the-league teams:

    2009 - James Harden (22.9, 26.7, 31.4 MPG) 50-32 (.610), 55-27 (.671), 47-19 (.712)
    2008 - O.J. Mayo (38.0, 38.0, 26.3 MPG) 24-58 (.293), 40-42 (.488), 46-36 (.561)
    2007 - Al Horford (31.4, 33.5, 35.1 MPG) 37-45 (.451), 47-35 (.573), 53-29 (.646)
    2006 - Adam Morrison (29.8, Injured, 15.2 MPG) 33-49 (.402), N/A, 35-47 (.427)
    2005 - Deron Williams (28.8, 36.9, 37.3 MPG) 41-41 (.500), 51-31 (.622), 54-28 (.659)
    2004 - Ben Gordon (24.4, 31.0, 33.0 MPG) 47-35 (.573), 41-41 (.500), 49-33 (.598)
    2003 - Carmelo Anthony (36.5, 34.8, 36.8 MPG) 43-39 (.524), 49-33 (.598), 44-38 (.537)
    2002 - Mike Dunleavy (15.9, 31.1, 32.5 MPG) 38-44 (.463), 37-45 (.451), 34-48 (.415)
    2001 - Pau Gasol (36.7, 36.0, 31.5 MPG) 23-59 (.280), 28-54 (.341), 50-32 (.610)
    2000 - Darius Miles (26.3, 27.2, 30.0 MPG) 31-51 (.378), 39-43 (.476), 27-55 (.329)

    Though some of those teams suck, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the comment. If you look at the third year of these teams (Favors' current position) 6 of these 10 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have, with one not far behind. In the second year (Kanter's current position), 5 of the 9 teams had better winning percentages than we currently have. Sure, we're playoff contenders. The argument isn't that they aren't getting 35 mpg. The argument is that, with everything that's been said, these guys are ranking dead last in minutes.

    Now that we can more clearly assess that these teams are in a much closer proximity to our current team, feel free to shift the goal-post on the argument.



    1. Just because McLeod and Palacio started over Deron doesn't mean that it was the best course of action.
    2. Deron played 28.8 mpg his rookie year. His second and third years were 36.9 and 37.3 mpg, respectively.
    3. From top-to-bottom, there is nothing similar about this franchise between now and 1984 except that Scott Layden somehow still has a job (in a much smaller capacity) and Thurl Bailey still maintains some kind of loose-affiliation with the team. Perhaps you could point out some other relevant details between 1984 and now.
    Damn! infection dropping knowledge to fools talking out thier asses.
    Repped and one of the best posts i have seen in quite awhile.

  2. #32
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    they don't play them cause they want to be able to keep them after their rookie contracts for less money. if they would get more playing time, i think both would get max money offers. but still, people are ready to play big money to big men if they have potential and didn't get many minutes on the floor in the past (see deandre jordan, mcgee, omer asik and so on).

    the jazz want to keep them for 8-9 mio/year instead of 15 mio/year. that's the only explanation to me. let them on the bench as long as possible so that they don't become great in order to be able to match any contract offer favors and kanter get.

    i think millsap and jefferson should leave this or by the end of the season. favors and kanter have to start as soon as possible. neither shortysap or fatboy al are ready to come off the bench.

  3. #33
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underKANTER View Post
    they don't play them cause they want to be able to keep them after their rookie contracts for less money. if they would get more playing time, i think both would get max money offers. but still, people are ready to play big money to big men if they have potential and didn't get many minutes on the floor in the past (see deandre jordan, mcgee, omer asik and so on).

    the jazz want to keep them for 8-9 mio/year instead of 15 mio/year. that's the only explanation to me. let them on the bench as long as possible so that they don't become great in order to be able to match any contract offer favors and kanter get.

    i think millsap and jefferson should leave this or by the end of the season. favors and kanter have to start as soon as possible. neither shortysap or fatboy al are ready to come off the bench.
    The problem with this thinking is that the jazz dont get to decide if they keep favors and kanter after thier rookie deals expire..... The decision lies with kanter and favors themselves, and the fact that they are not being played very much probably doesn't help to make them want to stay

  4. #34
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Harden > Sefolosha
    Mayo > Jaric and Ross
    Horford > Pachulia
    Morrison -=- Carroll
    Williams > Milt/Keith
    Gordon > Piatkowski
    Anthony > White
    Dunleavy < Jamison
    Gasol > Wright
    Miles -=- Maggs

    Favors >? Millsap
    Kanter >? Jefferson
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #35
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    imagine kanter or favors starting for the heat and getting big minutes: they would be beasts! and getting paid big time! since jazz only know how to waste young talents, i hope both will leave the jazz and become multiple time all-stars. maybe the jazz will understand then what a big mistake it once was to damn them to the bench in order to be able to play fatboy al and shortysap.

  6. #36
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Harden > Sefolosha
    Mayo > Jaric and Ross
    Horford > Pachulia
    Morrison < Carroll
    Williams > Milt/Keith
    Gordon > Piatkowski
    Anthony > White
    Dunleavy < Jamison
    Gasol > Wright
    Miles -=- Maggs

    Favors >? Millsap
    Kanter >?Jefferson
    Those teams might not have ever known if harden>sefolosha and so on if harden never got to play.
    If favors and kanter were getting the minutes that those other number 3 picks were getting then i think we would safely be able to say that favors is greater than millsap and kanter is greater than jeffy.
    In fact if you look at kanter, favors, millsap, and jeffys numbers per 36 i think we would find that the young guys are already better.

  7. #37
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    If the jazz drafted harden and already had sefolosha on thier roster, then thier thinking probably would have been..... sefolosha is pretty good and has experience and harden is young and inexperienced so we will go with sefolosha and give harden 18 minutes per game for his first 3 years.

  8.  

     

  9. #38
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    If the jazz drafted harden and already had sefolosha on thier roster, then thier thinking probably would have been..... sefolosha is pretty good and has experience and harden is young and inexperienced so we will go with sefolosha and give harden 18 minutes per game for his first 3 years.
    Like they did with Brewer, right?

    Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  10. #39
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Like they did with Brewer, right?

    Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.


    if corbin was the coach of brewer he probably would not have played as much as he did.

  11. #40
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Like they did with Brewer, right?

    Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
    you described sefolosha alot like i would describe raja bell last year except way worse and raja was our starter until he was injured while our young talented lotto pick got dnp's

  12. #41
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Harden > Sefolosha
    Mayo > Jaric and Ross
    Horford > Pachulia
    Morrison -=- Carroll
    Williams > Milt/Keith
    Gordon > Piatkowski
    Anthony > White
    Dunleavy < Jamison
    Gasol > Wright
    Miles -=- Maggs

    Favors >? Millsap
    Kanter >? Jefferson
    yap. favors > millsap and kanter > jefferson since both play on both ends, care about winning, have a good motor, hustle and do the little things. just give starter minutes to favors and kanter and see what happens: both would average double doubles. how many bigmen average double doubles in this league? many here overrate millsap and jefferson and underrate kanter and favors. at least they don't get outrebounded and burned on the defensive end. i'd rather have rawer players that get 100 percent once they are on the floor. these two guys are already average to above average bigmen in this league despite being so young and not getting much playing time. give them playing time and let them make mistakes. they can get the best big man duo in this league soon! treat them the way they deserve!

  13. #42
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Like they did with Brewer, right?

    Sefolosha has no offensive game, and is a slightly above average defender.
    slightly above average? that must be a joke! he is an elite type defender, imo.

  14. #43
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    The point of this thread is that all the other teams in the nba put thier #3 picks on the court more than the jazz regardless of who else is on the roster.... the jazz could make room for favors and enes to get more minutes but they dont. (like playing millsap at the 3 if they wont cut back on al and pauls minutes)

    Lunatic said himself that jamison was better than dunleavy... but dunleavy was still given more minutes than our guys.

  15. #44
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underkanter View Post
    yap. Favors > millsap and kanter > jefferson since both play on both ends, care about winning, have a good motor, hustle and do the little things. Just give starter minutes to favors and kanter and see what happens: Both would average double doubles. How many bigmen average double doubles in this league? Many here overrate millsap and jefferson and underrate kanter and favors. At least they don't get outrebounded and burned on the defensive end. I'd rather have rawer players that get 100 percent once they are on the floor. These two guys are already average to above average bigmen in this league despite being so young and not getting much playing time. Give them playing time and let them make mistakes. They can get the best big man duo in this league soon! Treat them the way they deserve!
    championship!1!!!!1!1!!11
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  16. #45
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Lunatic said himself that jamison was better than dunleavy... but dunleavy was still given more minutes than our guys.
    He got 15 minutes per game with Jamison.

    Thats a lot less bro
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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