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  1. #16
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    I always like the cherry picking of a successful team management ploy.

    Clippers trade vets/play young'uns. How has that worked when they did it.

    Washington is doing it right now.

    Toronto did it when they shipped Vince Carter.

    Would Denver count after Anthony trade?

    I mean, when is the ACTUAL analysis going to take place?


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    youre inquires are tiresome

  2. #17
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Keefe View Post
    This.
    I think you are missing the point.

    We would have a very good idea of how good Favors and Hayward can be and a lot more data on Burks and Kanter at this point if they were playing a lot.

    They are unknowns.

    If they are great, we are in good shape. if they aren't we know that, and will be able to move forward looking for tha player in last years draft, this years and next year instead of this treadmill and stifle young players bs.

  3. #18
    Senior Member kwb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Keefe View Post
    This.
    DeShawn. I also believe if Jerry would have given him more playing time, he wouldn't have covered himself in tattoos.

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  5. #19
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
    I always like the cherry picking of a successful team management ploy.

    Clippers trade vets/play young'uns. How has that worked when they did it.

    Washington is doing it right now.

    Toronto did it when they shipped Vince Carter.

    Would Denver count after Anthony trade?

    I mean, when is the ACTUAL analysis going to take place?
    How about we just analyze this team. Do you think we would have been better to get the young guys more playing time last year and this .. or do it the way we've done it?
    There's no right or wrong answer because we're guessing.

    I have long since felt we should have played for the future success rather than what, feels like, managing like we're playing not to lose.
    #dumptruckin

  6. #20
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    Y'all are some whiny bitches.
    I'm going to refer to you, lunaticwolf, etc as the "separate but equal" crowd. Never question the status quo, the management. The Jazz are flawless and above any kind of scrutiny. They know what is best and are therefore not to be challenged in their decisions and way of thinking. lol

  7. #21
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    That's only part of the equation. Trade your vets, play your young'ns, draft well..

    If we had done this last year we would have likely gotten a very good pick up of our own in the draft, this year's young guys would likely had been much further along, and we'd just be generally ahead of today rather than simply delaying a year.
    I don't know whether to credit Presti or simply having Memphis & Minnesota drafting in front of you and trading away future All Stars when they actually do strike gold. Presti definitely has done a helluva good job not striking out though. Then again, when it comes down to choosing between Kevin Love and Russell Westbrook (with some pretty damn solid choices behind) & Kevin "Everyone says I should go first but won't because Odom is 8 feet tall" Durant, it's hard to screw up like Minnesota and Memphis would have.
    No Mediocrity

  8. #22
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by margodydek View Post
    The man has basically had 4 top ten picks in back to back drafts (I'm including Favors, and I know Burks was a 12th pick), and apparently not one of these guys can crack the starting line up of a mediocre team that has no all-stars. That either means that KOC made some awful picks or Corbin has truly failed in developing our young players. The truth probably lies somewhere in-between.
    eh? You including Burks and Favors is extremely self serving, no? One was from another team, and the other wasn't a top 10 pick (do you think the #12 pick is a sure thing).

    Gordo was the #9 pick in what has turned out to be a very weak draft. Over his second and third seasons, he's started 68 games, averaged 29 minutes per game and been the team's #3 scorer and best wing player. Hard to call Gordo a miss at this point.

    Kanter is in his second season. He played no competitive basketball in the year before the draft. He's playing behind the team's top 2 scorers. He seems to be progressing nicely. The 2011 draft hasn't produced much to this point (with some obvious exceptions).
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  9. #23
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Jefferson should have been sent packing almost immediately after the experiment that brought him here combusted. No DWill, no sloan, then bye bye. Millsap should have been traded at last year's deadline, when he was probably the best contract in the NBA, and certainly would have yielded a valuable pick.


    (btw, Millsap is my favorite jazzman since Stock and Malone, but dealing him was probably the right decision.)
    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    That's only part of the equation. Trade your vets, play your young'ns, draft well..

    If we had done this last year we would have likely gotten a very good pick up of our own in the draft, this year's young guys would likely had been much further along, and we'd just be generally ahead of today rather than simply delaying a year.
    I don't think any of you arm chair gm's have the right to criticize the FO.

    What do you got against the Jazz?

  10. #24
    One Love - One Heart ONE LOVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    That's only part of the equation. Trade your vets, play your young'ns, draft well..

    If we had done this last year we would have likely gotten a very good pick up of our own in the draft, this year's young guys would likely had been much further along, and we'd just be generally ahead of today rather than simply delaying a year.
    I just had an idea - have you ever thought about becoming a GM for the Jazz? You have good connection with college scouts. You also have connections with UK so you may be able to sway some of the talents to the Jazz.

    If no, why not? If money's not an object, why not?
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  11. #25
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
    I'm going to refer to you, lunaticwolf, etc as the "separate but equal" crowd. Never question the status quo, the management. The Jazz are flawless and above any kind of scrutiny. They know what is best and are therefore not to be challenged in their decisions and way of thinking. lol
    So we should hitch ourselves to stupid and act like a bunch of know-it-all teenage hotheads with hormonal imbalances?

    Ain't nuthin wrong with disagreeing with their philosophy and approach, but calling acting like they have screwed the pooch is like listening to handicaps teaching physics to Stephen Hawking.

    I'm also pretty sure most of us think "Jazz Basketball" should have some re-tooling.
    No Mediocrity

  12. #26
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    I think it's also a good time to remind everyone what KOC said about preserving their cap space for next season's trade deadline. You're looking at a core of Favors, Kanter, Hayward, Marvin, maybe a couple minor attachments, and a ****load of salary to get those picks you're boasting OKC for getting.

    O'Connor did not have a Ray Lewis or a Ray Allen to trade. He had an Al Jefferson and a Devin Harris.
    No Mediocrity

  13. #27
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    How about we just analyze this team. Do you think we would have been better to get the young guys more playing time last year and this .. or do it the way we've done it?
    There's no right or wrong answer because we're guessing.

    I have long since felt we should have played for the future success rather than what, feels like, managing like we're playing not to lose.
    Not what the thread is about, or at least, what I was responding to.

    Did Williams get traded at the deadline? I don't remember. I don't think the Jazz were prepared to "clean house" after the trade, plus they probably had delusions of still making the playoffs that year.

    Then the lockout. No off season to really overhaul the roster, and their big pick was a tremendous project (Kanter). Jazz were contending for playoffs, so I would imagine the Jazz, looking at their roster at last year's trade deadline, made the conscious decision to see where the team would go in the next year and a half, and see what would happen in the '13 off season, where they'd have boatloads of cap space, and only four rookie contracts on the books. Everything since then has been in line with that philosophy. The only move that hasn't was the Marvin Williams trade, but 7.5 for one more year for a serviceable player is certainly not cap killing.

    I'm fairly confident the Jazz front office is aware of what the team, as constructed, is. The question is whether the Jazz decide to go with the current roster, collect the likely two playoff game revenue (hopefully three), and then be the "hey, we can take on contracts" team in the summer, or collect the minor assets MillJefferbigsvet would net.

    What worries me is that they like Jefferson's attitude toward the team and community so much that they look past his obvious limitations on the court and sign him to a long term contract.


    Quote Originally Posted by negative reputation giver
    youre inquires are tiresome

  14. #28
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    I don't think any of you arm chair gm's have the right to criticize the FO.

    What do you got against the Jazz?
    Membership in JazzFanz gave me the right to criticize. Keeping my armchair warm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotttnickkk View Post
    I just had an idea - have you ever thought about becoming a GM for the Jazz? You have good connection with college scouts. You also have connections with UK so you may be able to sway some of the talents to the Jazz.

    If no, why not? If money's not an object, why not?
    Haha .. you are so awesome.
    #dumptruckin

  15. #29
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
    Not what the thread is about, or at least, what I was responding to.

    Did Williams get traded at the deadline? I don't remember. I don't think the Jazz were prepared to "clean house" after the trade, plus they probably had delusions of still making the playoffs that year.

    Then the lockout. No off season to really overhaul the roster, and their big pick was a tremendous project (Kanter). Jazz were contending for playoffs, so I would imagine the Jazz, looking at their roster at last year's trade deadline, made the conscious decision to see where the team would go in the next year and a half, and see what would happen in the '13 off season, where they'd have boatloads of cap space, and only four rookie contracts on the books. Everything since then has been in line with that philosophy. The only move that hasn't was the Marvin Williams trade, but 7.5 for one more year for a serviceable player is certainly not cap killing.

    I'm fairly confident the Jazz front office is aware of what the team, as constructed, is. The question is whether the Jazz decide to go with the current roster, collect the likely two playoff game revenue (hopefully three), and then be the "hey, we can take on contracts" team in the summer, or collect the minor assets MillJefferbigsvet would net.

    What worries me is that they like Jefferson's attitude toward the team and community so much that they look past his obvious limitations on the court and sign him to a long term contract.
    Good post and you're right, I over-simplified the thread topic.
    #dumptruckin

  16. #30
    One Love - One Heart ONE LOVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post

    What worries me is that they like Jefferson's attitude toward the team and community so much that they look past his obvious limitations on the court and sign him to a long term contract.
    Also the fact that he can give you (nearly) 20/10 any given night and there are only a handful of players who can do that in the league, none of which are interested in coming to Utah. I know he had defensive shortcomings, but Utah as a location has its shortcomings.
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