LA Cop Killer

[SaltyDawg]

The LAPD has 9,985 sworn officers. Based on the stories you linked to I would estimate that 10-15 did wrong (allegedly because it does not detail the outcomes of the investigations in the report I read and the Huffington Post is all about sensationalism). Not one of those stories appeared to be racially motivated. Yet Dorner describes in his manifesto that he is motivated by what he believes is racism. So, because of these stories that don't fit what Dorner is describing, you're rooting for him.

Also I didn't get out of those stories that the LAPD is currently rampant with corruption. In the one story while critical of uses of force, surprisingly the Huffington Post says:The efforts, undertaken under a federal court order, have yielded results: The city's crime rate is the lowest in four decades, and police are getting praise from communities, including minorities and gays, that had historically complained about mistreatment.

I guess we just have differing views on this guy.

Edit: I'm not saying that some bad things didn't go down with Rampart on a grand scale. But I have yet to see anything that lends credibility to his allegations, and even if it did he's already lost any ability to state his case by committing out and out homicide repeatedly.

You seriously don't see any evidence that the LAPD is currently rampant with corruption?

There is a guy who was recently an LAPD officer claiming that it is currently rampant with corruption. Not only that, but he's taking extreme measures, even sacrificing his own life, to make sure the story actually gets out and doesn't just get swept under the rug.

Even if you don't believe him, what does it say about the LAPD that would hire such a nutjob that would do all if this based on a lie? Surely they aren't above hiring corrupt individuals.

And even if you ignore all of that, the LAPD, while searching for this guy, has opened fire on innocent civilians, with no warning whatsoever, multiple times now. And this is while they know the national spotlight is shining on them. What would they be doing if it was just a normal day where they weren't the top story in the nation?

And mind you, this is all about 13 or so years after the LAPD was proven to be corrupt with that Rampart fiasco.

I'm sorry, but I see plenty of evidence that the LAPD is rampant with corruption.

[SaltyDawg]

Right.....That's why the government itself projects there is going to be 30,000 drones in America's skies within the decade, just to capture mass murderers and deliver tacos I'm sure. That number obviously just a trial balloon # anyway that they are throwing out there just to see if people greet that fact with a smile or not. The real number will be much higher. Think...more like this. You're at a 4th of July parade with your family...minding your own business.... a drone sweeps overhead with its facial recognition abilities...picks you out of the crowd for having unpaid tickets and some little rent-a-cop magically appears on the ground to harass you about it. It doesn't have to extend to lethality, though you don't even want there to be that option in the first place.

I'm sure there are plenty of morons thinking, "I don't have anything to worry about, so bring on the police state!" A good portion of them probably don't even realize that's what they're thinking.

[nightmare3983]

Dorner is barricaded in a cabin. I think this will end soon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2672238.html

[Gameface]

[jazz_fanatic]

You know what's sad? Having a conversation with someone, and thinking about Jazzfanz when a certain topic comes up. My friend brought up this cop killer story and I immediately thought to myself..."Oh yeah, I saw that on Jazzfanz".

[moevillini]

You know what's sad? Having a conversation with someone, and thinking about Jazzfanz when a certain topic comes up. My friend brought up this cop killer story and I immediately thought to myself..."Oh yeah, I saw that on Jazzfanz".

even sadder when I think "oh yeah, there used to be a topic 'You know you've spent too much time on Jazzfanz' " and then remember it was on the OLD Jazzfanz

at any rate, I guess when they say they have Dormer pinned down in a cabin, they don't mean they, like, literally have him pinned down, like in wrestling or something.

[Boondocksaint27]

You seriously don't see any evidence that the LAPD is currently rampant with corruption?

There is a guy who was recently an LAPD officer claiming that it is currently rampant with corruption. Not only that, but he's taking extreme measures, even sacrificing his own life, to make sure the story actually gets out and doesn't just get swept under the rug.

Even if you don't believe him, what does it say about the LAPD that would hire such a nutjob that would do all if this based on a lie? Surely they aren't above hiring corrupt individuals.

And even if you ignore all of that, the LAPD, while searching for this guy, has opened fire on innocent civilians, with no warning whatsoever, multiple times now. And this is while they know the national spotlight is shining on them. What would they be doing if it was just a normal day where they weren't the top story in the nation?

And mind you, this is all about 13 or so years after the LAPD was proven to be corrupt with that Rampart fiasco.

I'm sorry, but I see plenty of evidence that the LAPD is rampant with corruption.

Show me the evidence that his claims are even the least bit credible. He was terminated what, four years ago (I guess depending on how you view the term "recent" some argument could be made there) For something akin to lying to his superior officers in a complaint. So they terminated him for lack of credibility, he's murdered in cold blood, and you are of the opinion that he's not just nuts or has steadily gone nuts since his termination, but that he's to be believed? Every report I've read from ACLU reports to news stories has marked the vast improvements in the LAPD over the last ten or so years.

Dorner's own case in some ways reflects the diversity of the LAPD: the superior he accused of abuse was a woman and the man who represented him at his disciplinary hearing was the first Chinese-American captain in department history.

When Dorner, a Naval reservist, returned to LAPD after deployment to the Middle East in 2007, a training officer became alarmed by his conduct, which included weeping in a police car and threatening to file a lawsuit against the department, records show.

Six days after being notified in August 2007 that he could be removed from the field, Dorner accused the training officer, Sgt. Teresa Evans, of kicking a severely mentally ill man in the chest and left cheek while handcuffing him during an arrest.

However, his report to internal affairs came two weeks after the arrest, police and court records allege. Civilian and police witnesses said they didn't see Evans kick the man, who had a quarter-inch scratch on his cheek consistent with his fall into a bush. A police review board ruled against Dorner, leading to his dismissal.

Online, Dorner tells a different story. He argues he was "terminated for doing the right thing."

"I had broken their supposed `Blue Line.'. Unfortunately, It's not JUST US, it's JUSTICE!!!" he wrote. Dorner said in the posting that his account was supported by the alleged victim. He also claims the board that heard his case had conflicts because of ties to Evans, the training officer.

Rice was quick to point out that while the LAPD culture has improved, there are still what she calls pockets of bad behavior.

That was echoed by Hector Villagra, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California.

"There has definitely been improvement from those dark days," Villagra said. "We are in a vastly different place, but there still are opportunities for improvement in this and any other police department."

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=2401...icle-related-3

BTW you're making the claim of the LAPD opening fire on innocent civilians to support your claim of corruption? Careless and foolish? Yes. Corrupt? That's quite a stretch. Unless you're arguing that they opened fire on the women in the truck simply because they felt like shooting at innocent civilians. I would say it is more likely that the region and officers within that region were on edge and made a mistake.

As to your other claim of them hiring a nutjob, well, if he was obviously a nutjob when they hired him then they need to revisit their hiring criteria. My other guess was that those in charge of the hiring had no inclination he was a sociopath or had the capabilities to be a sociopath. Look at some of the recent crazies in the news and what do you always hear from people "Nice guy. Kept to himself."

I need harder evidence then conjecture, and no murder of children of those who "wronged" him before I give any credence to his claims. Other then to call them the musings of a psychopath.

[SaltyDawg]

Show me the evidence that his claims are even the least bit credible. He was terminated what, four years ago (I guess depending on how you view the term "recent" some argument could be made there) For something akin to lying to his superior officers in a complaint. So they terminated him for lack of credibility, he's murdered in cold blood, and you are of the opinion that he's not just nuts or has steadily gone nuts since his termination, but that he's to be believed? Every report I've read from ACLU reports to news stories has marked the vast improvements in the LAPD over the last ten or so years.



http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=2401...icle-related-3

BTW you're making the claim of the LAPD opening fire on innocent civilians to support your claim of corruption? Careless and foolish? Yes. Corrupt? That's quite a stretch. Unless you're arguing that they opened fire on the women in the truck simply because they felt like shooting at innocent civilians. I would say it is more likely that the region and officers within that region were on edge and made a mistake.

As to your other claim of them hiring a nutjob, well, if he was obviously a nutjob when they hired him then they need to revisit their hiring criteria. My other guess was that those in charge of the hiring had no inclination he was a sociopath or had the capabilities to be a sociopath. Look at some of the recent crazies in the news and what do you always hear from people "Nice guy. Kept to himself."

I need harder evidence then conjecture, and no murder of children of those who "wronged" him before I give any credence to his claims. Other then to call them the musings of a psychopath.

His termination was for supposedly lying when he reported a superior officer had brutally kicked someone. So yes, LAPD officers firing shots at innocent civilians, with no warning whatsoever, multiple times, absolutely gives some credibility to his claims.

And yes, I would absolutely say his termination was recent. I'd be willing to bet that over 90% of the sworn LAPD officers today were working there when he was terminated. So yes, his termination is at least fairly recent in that sense.

I just can't accept that the LAPD hires serial killing nutjobs, and careless, trigger happy morons, but they absolutely don't hire any corrupt officers.

You need harder evidence than conjecture? Google "Rampart scandal" and there's plenty of hard core proof. As far as what's happening today, this dude actually worked there and he says it was happening. In fact, he was fired for reporting it.

He's a nutjob and he shouldn't have killed anyone, especially the daughter and fiance. I totally agree with you on that. But to say there's no evidence the LAPD ever did anything wrong is just not something I can agree with.

[Boondocksaint27]

His termination was for supposedly lying when he reported a superior officer had brutally kicked someone. So yes, LAPD officers firing shots at innocent civilians, with no warning whatsoever, multiple times, absolutely gives some credibility to his claims.

And yes, I would absolutely say his termination was recent. I'd be willing to bet that over 90% of the sworn LAPD officers today were working there when he was terminated. So yes, his termination is at least fairly recent in that sense.

I just can't accept that the LAPD hires serial killing nutjobs, and careless, trigger happy morons, but they absolutely don't hire any corrupt officers.

You need harder evidence than conjecture? Google "Rampart scandal" and there's plenty of hard core proof. As far as what's happening today, this dude actually worked there and he says it was happening. In fact, he was fired for reporting it.

He's a nutjob and he shouldn't have killed anyone, especially the daughter and fiance. I totally agree with you on that. But to say there's no evidence the LAPD ever did anything wrong is just not something I can agree with.

His report was found to be a lie because independent civilian witnesses did not corroborate his version of what happened and he reported the alleged incident after he was put on notice that he may be terminated.

We will have to agree to disagree about the firing on the innocent civilians. I would say that is more of a grand-scale mistake. But we obviously have different opinions on Dorner so we're going to see these incidents from a different perspective.

As for rampart, I wouldn't use that as "recent" evidence given that it was 15 years ago. My argument is that the LAPD within the last 7-10 years has worked hard to shed that stigma and the ACLU, from the statements above, seems to agree. My argument is that Dorner is a psychopath, not some vigilante trying to right wrongs. Vigilantes don't murder innocents. I'm also not saying that there's no evidence that someone wearing an LAPD uniform has ever done anything wrong. But Dorner has no evidence to support his claims, he was fired for lying. If he did have evidence the LA Times would have paid him to tell his story and show his evidence. Instead he chose to murder 4 years later.

Dorner is no martyr. He's not worth supporting. He's a murderer.

[Sneakers]

Ok first of its obvious Dorner was a despicable and disturbed human being.

But I didn't know the police was allowed to set fire to a house with a suspect inside. I've also read reports that they forced the individual back in the house (wouldn't let him/her leave) when it was on fire.

The cabin owners said there was no television access in the cabin, yet police ordered all news agencies to stop showing live feed on the house.

Oh well, guess its all over.

[Sneakers]

Also, maybe none of that happened and everything was totally legit. I'm pretty much just speculating.

[MoTown16]

Ok first of its obvious Dorner was a despicable and disturbed human being.

But I didn't know the police was allowed to set fire to a house with a suspect inside. I've also read reports that they forced the individual back in the house (wouldn't let him/her leave) when it was on fire.

The cabin owners said there was no television access in the cabin, yet police ordered all news agencies to stop showing live feed on the house.

Oh well, guess its all over.

AP reporting there was a single gunshot heard before the cabin started burning. Supposedly the LAPD was robotically ripping apart the walls one by one to get inside. I have no doubt the LAPD wanted him taken "dead," but did they kill him while he was trying to surrender? Doubtful.

[MoTown16]

I wonder if Dorner is even IN the area they're searching. The police are so idioitc they don't even know if the axle on the truck that was found was broken BEFORE the tow truck hooked it up to haul it off. Geez, do you think someone should have preserved the scene until a proper inspection could have been done. I'm betting Dorner planted the truck and set it on fire. While 100's of officers investigate that area, he's been elsewhere. Of course there's also the possibility he wants a shootout, taking as many with him before he goes out in a hail of bullets. But I doubt it; he has a personal vendetta. He'll likely go after specific people. Let's hope he's caught before he can kill anyone else.

And I admit I was wrong on this one. Dorner should have burned his truck as a diversion. Guess he wanted to make a last stand in Big Bear, a la Rambo. The terrible weather may have changed his plans; no way could he hide out in the wilderness.

[Sneakers]

Now the reports that a body was found in cabin are being refuted... weird.

Also, I'm not saying this stir the pot but honestly how often do the police set fire to a building in a standoff situation? I've never seen it before.

[SaltyDawg]

His report was found to be a lie because independent civilian witnesses did not corroborate his version of what happened and he reported the alleged incident after he was put on notice that he may be terminated.

We will have to agree to disagree about the firing on the innocent civilians. I would say that is more of a grand-scale mistake. But we obviously have different opinions on Dorner so we're going to see these incidents from a different perspective.

As for rampart, I wouldn't use that as "recent" evidence given that it was 15 years ago. My argument is that the LAPD within the last 7-10 years has worked hard to shed that stigma and the ACLU, from the statements above, seems to agree. My argument is that Dorner is a psychopath, not some vigilante trying to right wrongs. Vigilantes don't murder innocents. I'm also not saying that there's no evidence that someone wearing an LAPD uniform has ever done anything wrong. But Dorner has no evidence to support his claims, he was fired for lying. If he did have evidence the LA Times would have paid him to tell his story and show his evidence. Instead he chose to murder 4 years later.

Dorner is no martyr. He's not worth supporting. He's a murderer.

I think we pretty much agree on Dorner. I'm not supporting what he did in any way.

Where we disagree is on the LAPD. I think there is plenty of evidence that they are corrupt, with more and more evidence mounting the longer this thing drags on.

Like I said, even if you don't believe a word of Dorner's claims, then that just means he's an even bigger psycho than I already think he is. I mean, only a psycho would do what he did. But what kind of person would do what he did if his claims weren't even true? And this is who the LAPD hired?

If they hire psychotic serial killers, and they hire trigger happy morons who fire at innocent civilians without warning, then I don't doubt for a second that they also hire corrupt officers.

And now the cabin is burning? After the LAPD told all the news agencies to leave the area? Yeah, nothing fishy about that...

By the way, it's not been difficult for the LAPD to get civilian witnesses to cover for corrupt officers in the past. See the Rampart scandal for proof it's happened before. Their extortion tactics have been very effective at getting false testimony, even false confessions.