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  1. #61
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    I think you guys are confusing the difference between "ceiling" and "is = to"

    Im not saying burks' athleticism is = to these guys. but he is close and given their minutes and their green-lights (both had more mins in their rookie seasons than alec has gotten in his 1st and 2nd *and maybe 3rd* combined) i feel like he could in time contribute in the same way RW does. IE in a scoring point who is more valuable accumulating ft attempts and keeping defenses guessing than dishing out 12 assists. Only in the last season or two (3-4 years into a career of 35+ min games) has westbrook become a top tier distributor.

    Westbrook has been great at drawing fouls (6.2 fta for career) and burks could emulate that (per 36 career rating of 5.3 fta). For their careers they shoot pretty similarly from the field (RW = 42.9%, 28.8% 3pt; AB = 41.3%, 33.7% 3pt). They are nearly identical rebounders per36 and Burks averages almost half the t/o's per 36. Does burks have a top2 player to dish to for 40 mins a game? no. And frankly i dont see him developing into a guy that can create for others that arent on durants level anyway (BTW i dont see RW being a high assist man w/o Durant either). He'll probably never be at the 8 asst level that RW is at now. But Given the time and go-ahead, i could easily see him being a 18-5-5 guy in his prime who lives at the FT line and keeps the opposing PG/SG on the bench half the game in foul trouble. (Assuming he meets ALL up-side).

    I feel that RW is his CEILING. I dont think that assumption is ridiculous. Am i saying he's there now? no. But i feel that if burks were given the green light, (and the 12,500 mins in 5 seasons that RW got) he has the tools to reach RW's level of contribution.
    Last edited by jope; 02-10-2013 at 03:04 PM.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointGod_AlecBurks View Post
    1st off. your a coward of a troll, grow a pair and make a forward looking statement, i understand you like to play devils advocate but atleast quote me if your gonna quote me(2nd time ive asked, in our very limited interactions), dont remember typing about 'coaching ball-handling'. come out with it already

    his ball handling skills up to this point have been focused on that of a slasher, how long has he been trying to handle the ball at point, heads up initiating the offense. (not very long at-all)... everyones screaming ball handling, not turnovers... interesting (the best 'superguards int he league really only have a 2:1 Assist/Turnover ratio, do you think thats unobtainable by burks in his prime?)

    is your stance really that 21year olds dont improve their dribbling? Jrue Holiday and jeff teague come to mind, both have elevated turnovers this year, but vastly improved assist numbers and both are now the #1 focus of teams defenses

    clueless? me?


    not gonna speak too much about myself, but im in the business of being correct, basically you aint never met a pimp like me in your life(and im young[probably half your age]) not gonna rub it in too much because i did see you asking for your $200 back for league pass), so i forgive your ignorance, basically im a powerful entity, speak to me like im the creator from tron.

    and if you plan to keep paraphrasing my statements instead of quoting me, this is the last response you will get from me. its obvious many on this board already wont dignify your trolling.
    Altboy,

    My apologies. My statements about coaching improving his ball handling and Westbrook should have been directed at jope. I just got so bogged down by your Burks bs and couldn't keep track. I do find it cute though how you seem very hung up on assist/turnover ratio as the be all, end all to determine one's ball-handling ability. That wouldn't have anything to do with experience and decision-making or anything. Ya know?

    By the way, learn how to type in English, not mangled run-ons posing for it.

    xoxoxo
    Gyp

  4. #63
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    Last edited by PointGod_AlecBurks; 03-02-2013 at 01:10 AM.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jope View Post
    I think you guys are confusing the difference between "ceiling" and "is = to"

    Im not saying burks is = to these guys. but he is close and given their minutes and their green-lights (both had more mins in their rookie seasons than alec has gotten in his 1st and 2nd *and maybe 3rd* combined) i feel like he could in time contribute in the same way RW does. IE in a scoring point who is more valuable accumulating ft attempts and keeping defenses guessing than dishing out 12 assists. Only in the last season or two (3-4 years into a career of 35+ min games) has westbrook become a top tier distributor.

    Westbrook has been great at drawing fouls (6.2 fta for career) and burks could emulate that (per 36 career rating of 5.3 fta). For their careers they shoot pretty similarly from the field (RW = 42.9%, 28.8% 3pt; AB = 41.3%, 33.7% 3pt). They are nearly identical rebounders per36 and Burks averages almost half the t/o's per 36. Does burks have a top2 player to dish to for 40 mins a game? no. And frankly i dont see him developing into a guy that can create for others that arent on durants level anyway (BTW i dont see RW being a high assist man w/o Durant either). He'll probably never be at the 8 asst level that RW is at now. But Given the time and go-ahead, i could easily see him being a 18-5-5 guy in his prime who lives at the FT line and keeps the opposing PG/SG on the bench half the game in foul trouble. (Assuming he meets ALL up-side).

    I feel that RW is his CEILING. I dont think that assumption is ridiculous. Am i saying he's there now? no. But i feel that if burks were given the green light, (and the 12,500 mins in 5 seasons that RW got) he has the tools to reach RW's level of contribution.
    This is ludicrous. RW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alec Beeeeeeeeeeerg

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    Said it before, say it again.

    D Wade is my comparison for Burks. Compare their numbers even in College!

  7. #66
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp Rosetti View Post
    This is ludicrous. RW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alec Beeeeeeeeeeerg
    Now? Yes.

    With Corbs choking him with a shock collar. Always yes.

    But on a different team or in a different situation. I'll stand by my "maybe not"

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointGod_AlecBurks View Post
    dont you hate it when 21 year olds dont do exactly what you expect... i mean that never happens.
    What are you talking about? I still here, Favors has the same measurables as Howard! Well he doesn't play with the same in game athleticism as Howard even if their vertical and reach are exactly the same.

  9. #68
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    I think the 2 guard is his natural position, but for the life of me cannot figure out why he should sit on the bench in favor of Tinsley and Watson, two guys who are totally washed up and barely adequate at best.

    But when Mo comes back and if the Jazz get a good young PG I hope the rotation is like this in the future:

    Mo/New PG (or vice versa)
    Burks/Foye (or whoever if Foye doesn't resign)
    Hayward/Caroll/Marv
    Kanter/Sap or Al (whoever the resign if they resign one)
    Favors/Sap or Al (same as above)

    Wishful thinking I know

  10. #69
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Burks is alright, and he may stick in this league. He's not in the same universe as Westbrook or Wade though.

    He's been averaging 19 minutes per game since December 23rd, and in that time period is shooting 39% (.515 TS%) and averaging 7.3 points 2.3 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

    Over the last 9 games, he's been averaging 23.6 minutes, and in that time period shooting 42% (although a blistering .580 TS% because of the 3s and free throws) and averaging 8.6 points, 2.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  11. #70
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Burks is alright, and he may stick in this league. He's not in the same universe as Westbrook or Wade though.

    He's been averaging 19 minutes per game since December 23rd, and in that time period is shooting 39% (.515 TS%) and averaging 7.3 points 2.3 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

    Over the last 9 games, he's been averaging 23.6 minutes, and in that time period shooting 42% (although a blistering .580 TS% because of the 3s and free throws) and averaging 8.6 points, 2.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists.
    Yesterday was the 1st game since december 26th that he's been allowed to take more than 9 shots. I just have a feeling he's been on a VERY short leash and is hesistant to make anything resembling a mistake... which leads to hesitation and second-guessing.

    I think he's better suited as a follow your instincts guy, doing what he does best -> drawing fouls. Forcing him into a pure point role will NEVER work. And for some reason i think that's what he is being told to be while on the floor.

    Either way, he has been more than sufficient for us as a back up pg.

    He's making the hardest transition in the NBA and is doing a bang up job IMO

  12. #71
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jope View Post
    Yesterday was the 1st game since december 26th that he's been allowed to take more than 9 shots.
    Allowed? Why should a guy shooting so poorly be taking so many shots while he's on the floor? How many shots do you think Hayward, Al and Millsap take per minute?

    Of the regulars (that is, all players except Evans and Murphy), Alec is 10th in TS% and 7th in FGA/minute.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  13. #72
    I Love Warm Hugs Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Burks is alright, and he may stick in this league. He's not in the same universe as Westbrook or Wade though.

    He's been averaging 19 minutes per game since December 23rd, and in that time period is shooting 39% (.515 TS%) and averaging 7.3 points 2.3 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

    Over the last 9 games, he's been averaging 23.6 minutes, and in that time period shooting 42% (although a blistering .580 TS% because of the 3s and free throws) and averaging 8.6 points, 2.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists.
    Given the fact that he didn't play much last season and got quite a few DNP's this year, it's like he's a rookie. We may very well look back on the Mo and Earl injuries as franchise-changing (saving?) events. Alec was probably going to be a throw in like Koufos in a trade. Now KOC has deemed him untouchable for now. Do we have other gems languishing on our bench? Maybe if they gave Kanter some PT he might have a good game. Oh wait...

  14. #73
    Senior Member Jazz4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Burks is alright, and he may stick in this league. He's not in the same universe as Westbrook or Wade though.

    He's been averaging 19 minutes per game since December 23rd, and in that time period is shooting 39% (.515 TS%) and averaging 7.3 points 2.3 rebounds and 1.7 assists.

    Over the last 9 games, he's been averaging 23.6 minutes, and in that time period shooting 42% (although a blistering .580 TS% because of the 3s and free throws) and averaging 8.6 points, 2.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists.
    The TS% is all that's really relevant. The fact he has been doing most his damage from three is desirable actually. Burks has still not seen a consistent stretch where he can play his natural position. Since Dec 23 its been almost all PG duty, where he is clearly instructed to throw the ball to Al and not even look for a shot or opening. He got to play SG mostly last night, and the boost in production was obvious. 24 points in 27 minutes not too shabby eh?

  15. #74
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    1 game is not a trend.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  16. #75
    I Love Warm Hugs Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz4ever View Post
    The TS% is all that's really relevant. The fact he has been doing most his damage from three is desirable actually. Burks has still not seen a consistent stretch where he can play his natural position. Since Dec 23 its been almost all PG duty, where he is clearly instructed to throw the ball to Al and not even look for a shot or opening. He got to play SG mostly last night, and the boost in production was obvious. 24 points in 27 minutes not too shabby eh?
    Corey Maggette: that's the type of game Alec has (or can mature into). He obviously needs to get better at finishing, but that will come...if he continues to get PT. If I were coach, I'd bring Burks in for Foye about halfway through the 1st quarter at SG. Then Alec slides over to PG at the quarter break. That matches him up against the opposing sub when he's at the point.

    The real problem is that we simply don't know how good Burks, Favors and Kanter can be until Corbin takes the training wheels off. I hope these latest uninspired losses convince Kevin O'Lindsey (and Greg and Gail Miller) that changes MUST be made.

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