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  1. #31
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    In terms of a team building a championship contender, no. It overvalues underpaid players way too much. Underpaid players get paid, and most of the time, they change teams. You can't keep them.
    Which is why it's important for your highly paid players to have a significant impact on wins and losses. A lot of people don't think Al is the type of guy you can build a contender around, so they see him as a hindrance. It's completely rational.
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  2. #32
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    No team with Al as a primary scorer will ever win anything, and I don't think he can fit in an offense when he's not the primary scorer.

  3. #33
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Which is why it's important for your highly paid players to have a significant impact on wins and losses.
    Which he is.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  4. #34
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Norm View Post
    No team with Al as a primary scorer will ever win anything
    Why?
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #35
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Which he is.
    Debatable. Not sure he's a guy you want to pay $15mm and build around. Not sure he's a guy who can succeed in a complementary role. While people love to find villains, and Al has become a villain for a large chunk of Jazz fans, there are plenty of good reasons to want him gone (while also wanting to hold onto Millsap).
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  6. #36
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Debatable. Not sure he's a guy you want to pay $15mm and build around. Not sure he's a guy who can succeed in a complementary role.
    Who says we are going to pay him 15 mil?

    I forget, are we the ones who gave him a max extension? Or did we trade for the man?
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  7. #37
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    I forget, are we the ones who gave him a max extension? Or did we trade for the man?
    Irrelevant. The Jazz are the team paying him now.

    I do agree that fans tend to go overboard with their "hate" of certain players, and frequently ignore data/evidence that contradicts what they want to believe. For example, while the Jazz have been outscored with Jefferson on the court and with the Jefferson-Millsap combo on the court this season, this wasn't true last season. Yet, on several occasions I've read posts where fans talk about how much more effective Kanter and Favors are this season and were last season than Jefferson and Millsap (yes, I recognize the flaws in +/-...but these arguments usually revolve around the Jazz getting killed with Al-Millsap on the court, which simply wasn't true last season). This flies in the face of every metric available (simple box score stats, PER, Win shares, ORtg - DRtg, +/-, adjusted +/-, etc.).

    As for re-signing Al, I might be ok with it at a dollar amount well below what he'll end up getting, and under the condition that he's ok moving to a bench role as he's supplanted by Favors and Kanter. Also, I don't particularly enjoy watching him play and think defense is particularly important in the playoffs when the game slows down and teams can prepare for opponents.
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  8. #38
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    I feel about Al how I felt about AK.

    If they are willing to come off the bench for 7-9 million a year, I LOVE them.

    If they want to start and be the man? Move on. They are both third options for a team.

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  10. #39
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    Also, the reason why Al is a third option and best off the bench is because he is a Dwight Howard type player offensively. You HAVE to run the offense through him, because he can't do anything other than post up. The reason why he is a third option off the bench is because he isn't good enough defensively (unlike Howard) to carry a starting role.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    I find it interesting that when we talk about trading Al, everyone makes it sound like he has no value and we should only get a bag of chips. Yet, in almost the same breath, these people will say Al will command 15 mil a year and a starting posistion. WTF

    Trade Al and Paul. We have two guys who were number 3 overall picks that will be better anyways, and thats where our money should be going. Get something for Al and Paul to help fill the holes somehow. This isn't rocket science. We don't want all our value piled into four bigs. Just go and get a couple back ups for Enes and Derrick. This is do stupid to think we should be holding on to either one of them. Its either that or trade one of young guys. What the hell is the point to having Enes buried on the bench forever? Thats a 3 pick. Its a waste to not get a starter out of it.

    al has no value according to me for the jazz. i want my jazz to play jazz basketbal, not alfense.
    i want my jazz to make playoff run. or atleast play defense.

    why al will get 15 million cus if charlotte gets al for example, they will win about 35 games per year garantueed which will sell more tickets hence from a bussnes standpoint al has a value.

    but as a fan's point of view al aint leading us to the promissed land.



    fans want championships
    owners want profit.


    if you want a championship al = used back of toilet paper
    if you want profit al = 10-15mil
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    They fell in love with the grit and the man who backed up Boozer. They refuse to see that he is no longer that player anymore.
    he is still that player.
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Al is hated worse than Marvin (-6). Does that answer your question?

    And this brings in the definition of value. Where does contract size fit in?
    maybe cus al is the first option who plays no defense.
    and marvin is the 5th option who does his job defensivly and makes virtually no mistakes
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Norm View Post
    No team with Al as a primary scorer will ever win anything, and I don't think he can fit in an offense when he's not the primary scorer.
    especially if he plays 35 minutes as the anchor(center) of the "defense"
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  15. #44
    Senior Member Catchall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mission Accomplished View Post
    milsap can create off of the dribble something that Jefferson and Boozer can't do
    Create what exactly? The thing Millsap is good at is filling the lane on the break. His fade-aways are low % and he's not really passing the ball much.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catchall View Post
    Create what exactly? The thing Millsap is good at is filling the lane on the break. His fade-aways are low % and he's not really passing the ball much.
    millsap can play pick and roll pick and pop basketball beautifully. al cant
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

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