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  1. #1
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Al/Paul Lineups since 2010/11

    Posted some of this stuff in the game thread, but thought it was thread-worthy (Yay! Another Al hate thread...). Following are the +/- stats from the last 3 seasons (10/11 - 12/13) for lineups featuring one, both or neither of Al and Paul.



    10/11


    When Al and Millsap were on the court together, the Jazz were outscored by 61 points in 2190 minutes (-1.3 per48).

    When Al was on the court without Millsap, the Jazz were outscored by 109 points in 750 minutes (-7.0 per48).

    When Millsap was on the court without Al, the Jazz outscored their opponents by 73 in 415 minutes (+8.4 per48).

    When neither Al nor Paul were on the court, the Jazz were outscored by 53 in 621 minutes (-4.1 per48).



    11/12


    When Al and Millsap were on the court together, the Jazz outscored their opponents by 158 points in 1695 minutes (+4.5 per48).

    When Al was on the court without Millsap, the Jazz outscored their opponents by 4 points in 380 minutes (+0.5 per48).

    When Millsap was on the court without Al, the Jazz outscored their opponents by 38 in 405 minutes (+4.5 per48).

    When neither Al nor Paul were on the court, the Jazz were outscored by 159 in 753 minutes (-10.1 per48).



    12/13

    When Al and Millsap are on the court together, the Jazz have been outscored by 49 points in 1418 minutes (-1.7 per48).

    When Al is on the court without Millsap, the Jazz have been outscored by 28 points in 385 minutes (-3.5 per48).

    When Millsap is on the court without Al, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 77 in 284 minutes (+13.0 per48).

    When neither Al nor Paul are on the court, the Jazz have been outscored by 18 in 626 minutes (-1.4 per48).



    10/11 - 12/13 (totals)

    When Al and Millsap have been on the court together, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 48 points in 5303 minutes (+0.4 per48).

    When Al has been on the court without Millsap, the Jazz have been outscored by their opponents by 133 points in 1515 minutes (-4.2 per48).

    When Millsap has been on the court without Al, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 188 in 1104 minutes (+8.2 per48).

    When neither Al nor Paul have been on the court, the Jazz have been outscored by 230 in 2000 minutes (-5.5 per48).
    Last edited by GVC; 02-24-2013 at 10:59 AM.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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  3. #2
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    It's painfully obvious who the problem is, yet he gets any shot he wants.

    The Jazz should try to keep Millsap, even if they overpay a little, and should bench Al immediately.

    But they won't. Al is our future.

  4. #3
    Senior Member candrew's Avatar
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    And this all harkens back to a threads started about a week or so ago - How ithe hell is it possible that The Jazz have a winning record???

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    Quote Originally Posted by candrew View Post
    And this all harkens back to a threads started about a week or so ago - How ithe hell is it possible that The Jazz have a winning record???
    Its remarkable and sad to think how good we could be if we didn't have Al and had a decent coach. With Sloan and minus Al, we are a top 4 team.

  6. #5
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    The On-Court/Off-Court numbers per48 for Al and Paul over the 3 seasons:


    Al

    On-Court: -0.598
    Off-Court: -0.649
    Net: +0.051


    Paul

    On-Court: +1.768
    Off-Court: -4.957
    Net: +6.725
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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    Senior Member vegas's Avatar
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    Guess I gotta spread rep GVC. I think I've repped you twice ever lol. I think the real story here is how much of a positive impact Millsap is.
    Chop it!!!

  8. #7
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegas View Post
    Guess I gotta spread rep GVC. I think I've repped you twice ever lol. I think the real story here is how much of a positive impact Millsap is.
    Must be an optical illusion. He's too small, sulks, can't defend his own shadow, and is useless in the clutch...
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  9. #8
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    The worst thing about losing Al this summer will be the offensive cohesion and growth we've been seeing. The best thing will be the offensive cohesion and growth we'll see with passing big men.

    Kanter needs to establish himself so the FO can bolt on parts to him and Hayward without killing team chemistry.
    No Mediocrity

  10. #9
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    More thoughts. Paul is our best player. Clearly.

    Even last year, when Al was in the positive, when you look at the stats, it wasn't Al that was good. It was Paul that carried this team.

    This year, Paul is a +13 when he is on the court without Al. What does that tell you? That Favors and Kanter are better than Al. To have a 17 pt swing when Al is on the court without Paul, to when Paul is on the court with Favors/Kanter is shocking.

    Also, this completely makes all of you people that want Favors and Al to start look silly. Favors is another player that cannot play next to Al. Favors needs to be near the basket to really shine as a defender. Al needs to be near the basket to hide. You can't play them both together defensively.

    Al is the problem on this team. It begins and ends with him. He is our fourth best big, and there is no reason he should get any minutes the remainder of the year. Find out if Paul can take over this team for the rest of the year. Let Kanter blossom and get the minutes he needs to be great. Give Favors a chance to actually play a little offense (and not the Al offense. That isn't Favors' game. Run plays Favors will excel at).

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The worst thing about losing Al this summer will be the offensive cohesion and growth we've been seeing. The best thing will be the offensive cohesion and growth we'll see with passing big men.

    Kanter needs to establish himself so the FO can bolt on parts to him and Hayward without killing team chemistry.
    You are joking right? That was some offensive cohesion last night in the first and third quarters.

    And no, Corbin, it was not just one game.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Broncster's Avatar
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    I am curious what these stats are since the beginning of the year. I am guessing the same ratios but everyone looks slightly better?

  13. #12
    Thunder Fanatic honz's Avatar
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    Oof, numbers definitely don't lie here. Good stuff, Thomas.
    My love for Gordy Hayward is unabashed.

  14. #13
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks we should let the undersized Millsap and fatty Jefferson walk in the offseason?

    Kanter and Favors should start and each should get 30-35 minutes per game. We need two big man backups that play 10-15 minutes per game off the bench. Sign or trade for a young and veteran big. I don't get it where the problem is.

    Favors and Kanter have proved enough in those limited minutes.

    Maybe resign Millsap but I don't want to overpay for a guy that only can get 25 minutes per game off the bench and still never would accept a role as the sixth man of this team.

    We are very weak in the backcourt. We should improve there. We are more in a need of a Point Guard than a Big.

  15. #14
    Thunder Fanatic honz's Avatar
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    And to think I thought Jefferson was more valuable to us at the beginning of this year. I guess my eyes deceive me sometimes...
    My love for Gordy Hayward is unabashed.

  16. #15
    Thunder Fanatic honz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underKANTER View Post
    Am I the only one who things we should let the undersized Millsap and fatty Jefferson walk in the offseason?

    Kanter and Favors should start and each get 30-35 minutes per game. We need two big man backups that play 10-15 minutes per game off the bench. Sign or trade for a young and veteran big. I don't get it where the problem is.

    Favors and Kanter have proved enough in those limited minutes.

    Maybe resign Millsap but I don't want to overpay for a guy that only can get 25 minutes per game off the bench and still never would accept a role as the sixth man of this team.

    We are very weak in the backcourt. We should improve there. We are more in a need of a Point Guard than a Big.
    I think the best plan of action is to start Sap and Kanter and have Favors back up both spots. Favors' offensive game is brutal without a pick and roll PG, while Sap and Kanter have shown the ability to be solid scorers in this league. Plus neither Sap or Favors are very good defensive rebounders so having Kanter in the starting lineup helps there.
    My love for Gordy Hayward is unabashed.

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