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  1. #1
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    Jazz Starting Lineup and Rotations for Rest of the Season

    Big Al
    Millsap
    Demarre
    Foye
    Burks

    Kanter backs up Big Al.
    Favors backs up Millsap.
    Marvin backs up Demarre.
    Hayward backs up Foye.
    Tinsley backs up Burks until Mo comes back.

    Watson plays garbage minutes with Evans and Murphy.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    David Locke wrote:

    Marvin is really struggling. The three position in this offense is tough and he has not meshed with it yet. 3 of the last 4 games he has not scored. Tyrone Corbin said after the game that it might be time for some tweeks.
    So there might be some changes in the starting lineup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkralj View Post
    Big Al
    Millsap
    Demarre
    Foye
    Burks

    Kanter backs up Big Al.
    Favors backs up Millsap.
    Marvin backs up Demarre.
    Hayward backs up Foye.
    Tinsley backs up Burks until Mo comes back.

    Watson plays garbage minutes with Evans and Murphy.
    Starting: Al-Paul-DMC-Foye-Tinsley (DMC brings more energy we seem to always lack to start the game)
    1st Sub: Al-Favors-Hayward-Foye-Tinsley (depending on their start, Favors for either Paul/Al, as Hayward brings in offense & should help get Foye playing off the ball)
    2nd Sub: Enes-Favors-Marvin-Hayward-Burks (Watson is out of the rotation)
    i may quote myself from other treads... sue me!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    I'll like to point out that I don't agree with everything Corbin has done. But fans can't say "Play the youth" "Develop for the future" and then when Corbin plays the youth together they argue they want mix and match of the lineups. He's playing them together so they can learn to play together.

    You can't say Sloan would lead this team to great heights and then argue that Corbin leans to much on Sloan system.

    You can't have it both ways. And when ppl start playing both sides of an argument to attack the coach on all sides I personally don't like it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member candrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    David Locke wrote:



    So there might be some changes in the starting lineup.
    Wow already - Jazz have 3 players (4 if you count Millsap) that can play the SF position better than the current starter. Everyone wants Marvin to succeed - I get it. But this guy clearly doesn't fit. 56 games in was more than enough time to figure this out.

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    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    I'll like to point out that I don't agree with everything Corbin has done. But fans can't say "Play the youth" "Develop for the future" and then when Corbin plays the youth together they argue they want mix and match of the lineups. He's playing them together so they can learn to play together.

    You can't say Sloan would lead this team to great heights and then argue that Corbin leans to much on Sloan system.

    You can't have it both ways. And when ppl start playing both sides of an argument to attack the coach on all sides I personally don't like it.
    My arguement has always been the same.... play the guys that are producing the most. Crazy i know.
    Basically play marvin less and never play watson at all.... give those minutes to our better players (burks, hayward, carroll, foye)
    Maybe play millsap at the 3 a little more so that kanter and favors can get more minutes too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    My arguement has always been the same.... play the guys that are producing the most. Crazy i know.
    Basically play marvin less and never play watson at all.... give those minutes to our better players (burks, hayward, carroll, foye)
    Maybe play millsap at the 3 a little more so that kanter and favors can get more minutes too.
    Watson has been better than Tinsley lately. But maybe Tinsley would do just as well with the bench.
    Build a man a fire; keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of this life.

    Repeating the same actions and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    I'll like to point out that I don't agree with everything Corbin has done. But fans can't say "Play the youth" "Develop for the future" and then when Corbin plays the youth together they argue they want mix and match of the lineups. He's playing them together so they can learn to play together.

    You can't say Sloan would lead this team to great heights and then argue that Corbin leans to much on Sloan system.

    You can't have it both ways. And when ppl start playing both sides of an argument to attack the coach on all sides I personally don't like it.
    I say play the youth and develop the future. Not because I want to lose, but because I honestly believe if Al's minutes the rest of the year were 0, we would make the playoffs and be better than we are right now.

    You talk about having them learn to play together. 1- That's silly now with the shorter contracts and new CBA. You won't have the same teammates as long. 2 - This starting lineup of Mo, Hayward, Carroll, Paul, Favors has the "core" playing together. Shorten the bench at this point to Burks, Foye, and Kanter. There you go. The young 'ins are playing together, developing, and winning more.

    I do say that Sloan would have this team in a much better situation...IF AL WASN'T here. Also, Corbin does not run Sloan's system AT ALL. His defensive philosophy is different (pushes players to different help defenders on the floor), and his offensive philosophy is different (not as much movement, values the three more).

    My beef is Corbin is that he continues to play Al. There is no reason to do so. Yet he does. The only reason I can think of why the Jazz would continue to play Al is that they are planning on keeping him after this year.

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    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    If you take Al out of the lineup the 3 point shooter get less space, Millsap is the focal point of the offense and more importantly of the opposing defense. You want more movement but do you think this lineup has player that can hit a jump shot of a curl? Probably one of the best ones at that is actually Marvin Williams. You want Favors to play an offense that suits him better but which PG in our roster is great on the PnR with him? Maybe Hayward can play the ball handler there but G was having quite the TO trouble with it at the beginning of the year was he not? You think sitting Al would increase our PG defense? News flash. Most if not ALL of the PG's in the roster are AWFUL defending the PnR. Did you know that the "black hole" in offense in Al had the highest Pure Point Guard Rating of ALL the centers in the NBA? Just the other day I was playing with synergy. Al Jefferson was the 22nd BEST PnR Roll-man defender in the entire NBA and the best on the Jazz. Did you know that? That isn't the problem. The problem is when the ball handler gets into the lane. You can go on and on and diss Al all you want but not all of the fault in that scenario is his fault now is it?

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    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    If you take Al out of the lineup the 3 point shooter get less space, Millsap is the focal point of the offense and more importantly of the opposing defense. You want more movement but do you think this lineup has player that can hit a jump shot of a curl? Probably one of the best ones at that is actually Marvin Williams. You want Favors to play an offense that suits him better but which PG in our roster is great on the PnR with him? Maybe Hayward can play the ball handler there but G was having quite the TO trouble with it at the beginning of the year was he not? You think sitting Al would increase our PG defense? News flash. Most if not ALL of the PG's in the roster are AWFUL defending the PnR. Did you know that the "black hole" in offense in Al had the highest Pure Point Guard Rating of ALL the centers in the NBA? Just the other day I was playing with synergy. Al Jefferson was the 22nd BEST PnR Roll-man defender in the entire NBA and the best on the Jazz. Did you know that? That isn't the problem. The problem is when the ball handler gets into the lane. You can go on and on and diss Al all you want but not all of the fault in that scenario is his fault now is it?
    We have seen the jazz play with jefferson out of the lineup..... and it has looked pretty damn sweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    If you take Al out of the lineup the 3 point shooter get less space, Millsap is the focal point of the offense and more importantly of the opposing defense. You want more movement but do you think this lineup has player that can hit a jump shot of a curl?
    Yes, I do. Hayward can hit that jumpshot. Foye can hit that jumpshot. Marvin can hit that jumpshot. Mo can hit that jumpshot. Burks can hit that jumpshot. Carroll can hit that jumpshot. Millsap can hit that jumpshot. Kanter can hit that shot. Heck, even Favors can hit it. In fact, the only players that can't hit that jumpshot are Tinsley, Watson, Evans and Al. This is why the offense gets better without Al. Players like Marvin and Hayward can actually move, get touches and shots, and be more effective. Al kills movement, and when that happens players don't get touches, and they don't try as hard. Everyone wants to score.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    Probably one of the best ones at that is actually Marvin Williams. You want Favors to play an offense that suits him better but which PG in our roster is great on the PnR with him?
    Mo, Burks, Hayward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    You think sitting Al would increase our PG defense? News flash. Most if not ALL of the PG's in the roster are AWFUL defending the PnR.
    Absolutely. Because Favors and Kanter and Millsap all do a better job defending the rim. Let's say you have Mo and Favors defending the PNR. Millsap or Kanter is the other big. When Mo and Favors do a horrible job defending it, instead of watching the pg/big get a layup, Millsap/Kanter would actually slide over on their rotation and make a play. Al doesn't do that. He gives players a little slap on the butt when they fly by him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
    Did you know that the "black hole" in offense in Al had the highest Pure Point Guard Rating of ALL the centers in the NBA? Just the other day I was playing with synergy. Al Jefferson was the 22nd BEST PnR Roll-man defender in the entire NBA and the best on the Jazz. Did you know that? That isn't the problem. The problem is when the ball handler gets into the lane. You can go on and on and diss Al all you want but not all of the fault in that scenario is his fault now is it?
    I answered your question above. Al very rarely defends the PNR.

    Al is the beginning of Utah's problems. Once he is gone, it will be shocking how much better this team will be. You think Carmello was holding Denver back? At least Carmello was a winner and could carry a team. Al can do neither.

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  13. #12
    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
    Yes, I do. Hayward can hit that jumpshot. Foye can hit that jumpshot. Marvin can hit that jumpshot. Mo can hit that jumpshot. Burks can hit that jumpshot. Carroll can hit that jumpshot. Millsap can hit that jumpshot. Kanter can hit that shot. Heck, even Favors can hit it. In fact, the only players that can't hit that jumpshot are Tinsley, Watson, Evans and Al. This is why the offense gets better without Al. Players like Marvin and Hayward can actually move, get touches and shots, and be more effective. Al kills movement, and when that happens players don't get touches, and they don't try as hard. Everyone wants to score.
    You must be confusing what is a jumpshot and what is a jumpshot of a curl. A jumpshot a lot of the guys can make. Of a curl I've seen Hayward miss quite a few. marvin can hit them tough. The other guys are more of a standup shooter not someone you can rely to move, fight trough screens and take a shot on the move. Harpring was brilliant at this and CJ Miles was actually pretty good at it too. I don't think I ever seen Millsap or Kanter even attempting that move.


    Mo, Burks, Hayward.
    Mo score on 0.59 PPP of the PnR ball handler. The average PPP in all shots in the NBA is close to 1 PPP. He ranks 141th in the NBA. He scores on less than 28% of his attempts as the ball handler on the pick and roll. 28% of the attempts are TO.

    Burks is a tad better. At 0.73 PPP for 91th in the NBA. 15% of the attempts are TO.

    Hayward is at 0.60 PPP for 130th in the NBA. 24% of the attempts are TO.

    So yeah I can see the roster is full of players that can really be given the ball to run the PnR. Maybe...maybe Burks and Hayward needs to decrease his TO's.



    Absolutely. Because Favors and Kanter and Millsap all do a better job defending the rim. Let's say you have Mo and Favors defending the PNR. Millsap or Kanter is the other big. When Mo and Favors do a horrible job defending it, instead of watching the pg/big get a layup, Millsap/Kanter would actually slide over on their rotation and make a play. Al doesn't do that. He gives players a little slap on the butt when they fly by him.
    Normally the knock on Al is that he can't defend in space. Not that he can't defend at the rim. He blocks quite a bit of shots. And yes he's not the greatest defender in the world. Not by a long shot. There should be some upstick in defense when he sits.



    I answered your question above. Al very rarely defends the PNR.

    Al is the beginning of Utah's problems. Once he is gone, it will be shocking how much better this team will be. You think Carmello was holding Denver back? At least Carmello was a winner and could carry a team. Al can do neither.
    Maybe you're right. But in the NBA you can't send the kids out there and expect to win. 5 mins in they're sitting on the bench in foul trouble. You don't turn the offense over to Alec Burks or anyone cause they had a good 10 game stretch. You don't like Al. Or you grew into disliking Al and now it's impairing your judgement.

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    I bet the Thunder are feeling pretty stupid right about now. Can you imagine how much better Durant and Westbrook would be if they had spent their first three years on the bench of a mediocre playoff team instead of on the court losing?

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    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Norm View Post
    I bet the Thunder are feeling pretty stupid right about now. Can you imagine how much better Durant and Westbrook would be if they had spent their first three years on the bench of a mediocre playoff team instead of on the court losing?
    Shareef Abdur-Rahim....Look it up.

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    Senior Member gregbroncs's Avatar
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    Hey look a Locke sighting. Using made up stats that mean very little to defend the franchise and their coach again.
    Welcome aboard Snyder, Exum and Hood. Here is to hoping this season is more entertaining than the last 3.

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