Pittbulls.

[E.J. Wells]

I hate them.

I got an email via www.voteballou.com requesting that I support the ADBA and not to support legislation that is (supposedly) going on in T-Ville about not allowing specific breeds into the city. I gave the guy my two cents and he sent me a lengthy email telling me that I was too lazy, dumb, etc. to really know what was going on. He went on to tell me how he'll be sure to let my constituents know my stance -- to which I am pleased as punch. What a dick wad.

Anyhow, what are your thoughts on Pitbulls? Do you agree with me that they should all be shot in the head?

Discuss.

[Nate505]

My thoughts are if you're going to ban Pitbulls why not Rotweilers, German Shepards, and Dobermans as well.

Though the meanest dog I've ever seen was a mistreated Lab.

[Gameface]

I don't like pit bulls, but I don't think they are inherently dangerous. I wouldn't support banning them.

[babe]

Some cities have or are contemplating ordinances which specify certain breeds as "dangerous" and won't allow citizens to keep them within "their" community on any terms.

Some folks love mean dogs, and feel comfortable in a gangland sort of way having them around. It's like having your home really be your castle, and really having your natural rights as a human being. Some people like to have firearms as their mode of self-defense, and consider that an inalienable human right. A serious dog can provide even more significant protection. My neighbors across the street have three Great Danes and a Dalmation with a large yard and a three-foot chainlink fence. It would be nothing for these dogs to just jump over it, and they bark at everyone who goes by.

We have never been robbed.

In a free country you can hate anything/anyone you want, and even say so. In a free country you can just shoot a dog that is menacing you, charging out at you with it's hackles up, or otherwise outside the owner's yard and infringing on your right to walk peaceably along your way. Or, if you have a dog, you can just send your dog out to greet the meany. Well, you'd need a real credible dog of your own.

I've lived in some tough places, and was known by the dogs I kept. The smartest dog ever was a German Shepard/coyote mix. The most loyal and "credible" was a Wolf/Malamute mix. When I got married I married her labs as well. I've got a ten-month old male lab who thinks he owns me, and he's the boss around here. He would stand off a cougar for me for all he's worth, but I'd rather have my "Wolfie" in a situation like that.

But don't get me wrong about the PitBull thing. I don't like them either. A few months ago while strolling in the 'hood, a pitbull with hackles raised charged out at me and my daughter. I used my most authoritative voice to warn him off, standing still and squarely facing him. Don't ever turn, run, or let fear show. I do my best to psych them out, but I'm prepared to defend myself/mykids. The problem with some of these breeds is that they are unpredictable and/or on "autoagression". It's not that they really are unpredictable, but actually predictable in the wrong ways. The ultimate problem is the owners are sometimes irresponsible as well.

All in all, I'd say it's not the dog's fault, but the owner's. In all justice then, the ordinances should require the arrest and deportation of the owner as much as the dog.

Likewise, when you are attacked by someone with a gun, it's sorta dumb to outlaw the gun. In this sense, it could be argued that when you are attacked by a Pittbull, a reasonable self-defense would include shooting the owner as well as the dog. But I despair of our cops/courts being that reasonable. It sends the wrong message to the owner to fail to communicate the consequences of his failure to keep his weopon in check.

However, if you can contrive to get a dog to bite you, run to the doctor, then to your lawyer. You will have the last laugh. Except in the slums/ghettos, that is. Nobody ever collects judgment decrees from bums.

[E.J. Wells]

Fine, I really don't want them shot in the head. I'm a dog lover. I really do hate PB's though. I agree that it's the stupid owners most of the time, but even the BEST owner will make a mistake every once in a while: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52...d-dog.html.csp

She forgot to close a window. Luckily those dogs attacked a big Polly and not a child or elderly person -- or else that owner would be facing man slaughter charges. Imagine if your child was just out playing in the yard and a PB attacked and killed him/her. Imagine... Blech.

There is a reason you can't have a Tiger, Chimp, Wolf, or Bear as a pet, and I think that PB's are in the same class.

[freakazoid]

My thoughts are if you're going to ban Pitbulls why not Rotweilers, German Shepards, and Dobermans as well.

This.

The biggest problem with pit bulls are the owners. You can ban them, but then Johnny Meth-head or Michael dumbass Vick can always go out and buy one of those other breeds, and then "train" them to be aggressive by harrassing them until they hate all people. Like Nate, I've actually seen a yellow lab that this was done to. It sickens me.

I grew up with bird dogs, but I have owned one pit bull in my life, and the only reason that happened was because I knew someone who couldn't keep him anymore. My friends told me I was crazy to adopt someone's pit bull, and at the time I thought they were probably right, but I decided to give it a chance. Turned out to be one of the best dogs I've ever owned. He loved people, as well as other animals including cats. His name was Ballou, named after the bear in The Jungle Book. I know, I know, Stupid name, but he was an awesome dog.(that's actually a true story)

Don't misunderstand me and assume I'm biased because of one dog, either. I have had a run in with a pit bull once at a gas station. It's idiot owner was feeding him right next to the pump I was about to use. I was standing there talking to this dumbass about his dog, and he just got through telling me it wasn't aggressive towards people. When I went to pull the nozzle out, the sound on the metal clacking startled the dog, who had his head down in his dog dish. He went into sudden attack mode, and I almost had to shove the gas nozzle in his mouth. To be honest though, if I would have had to shoot that dog, I probably would have shot the owner twice.

When it comes right down to it, breed specific bans fail to address the real problem. POS owners. I would rather support stiffer penalties for owners of problem dogs, and outright prohibiting certain people from owning ANY dangerous breed.


P.S. Just read Babe's post. Excellent.

[Nate505]

His name was Ballou...I know, I know, Stupid name

Hey, me and Trout may disagree on this but this is hitting below the belt!

[The Thriller]

What a dumbass idea. Thank you babe, for bringing sanity into this thread. Shoot them all in the head? What a moran. Sure you're not having anymore health problems again?

[freakazoid]

even the BEST owner will make a mistake every once in a while: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52...d-dog.html.csp

She forgot to close a window.

Stupid owners are probably just as big of a problem as bad owners. I wouldn't be opposed to mandatory classes for people before being allowed to own certain breeds. As for incidents like this, no excuses. Zero tolerence. IMO, she should be facing multiple felonies as well as jail time and being permanently prohibited from dog ownership. Owners need to be held responsible for their stupidity.

[babe]

Fine, I really don't want them shot in the head. I'm a dog lover. I really do hate PB's though. I agree that it's the stupid owners most of the time, but even the BEST owner will make a mistake every once in a while: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52...d-dog.html.csp

She forgot to close a window. Luckily those dogs attacked a big Polly and not a child or elderly person -- or else that owner would be facing man slaughter charges. Imagine if your child was just out playing in the yard and a PB attacked and killed him/her. Imagine... Blech.

There is a reason you can't have a Tiger, Chimp, Wolf, or Bear as a pet, and I think that PB's are in the same class.

As a rule, you can keep these pets if you're willing to shop around for a properly-zoned and adequate facility. . . . I try to tell people that in a city, a large dog needs some minimal facilities. A secure dog run with a shelter, food and water inside a fenced yard for when you are not personally in charge of it. Inside a house might be OK if you don't leave doors or windows open and just forget about Buster, but like my wife says, when your hands and/or eyes aren't directly on it, you should put it out of harm's way. I used to treat my dogs as members of the family, but I have to admit even I don't want all the extra cleaning effort it takes. I spend a lot of time in the doghouse. It's just easier for all concerned.

I had a neighbor with a large python. . . . he braced a long pole over his walkway between two trees, and the snake would just wrap itself around it and stay there until the dude brought home some chicks for supper. IFA supplied the chicks. The mice and kittens it ate were probably "local". The dude also had a casket for a coffee table, with a human skeleton inside. I didn't know enough to check to see if the skeleton's neck bones were broken. . . .

We all make mistakes, and sometimes unthinkable things happen. Insurance companies make their living off being able to pay for them, for a price. The price is usually enough to make me think a little more about what I do. Probably takes two or three learning experiences to get responsibility dialed in enough to start making us do what it takes to prevent 'acccidents'. Are things like this covered in some home insurance policies? At what price? I'm sure "wrongful death" lawsuits have a voluminous history with auto insurers.

The classic method of insurers is to use yesterday's risk statistics to charge your customers, then lobby for some new laws to reduce your risk, and co-opt the police/dogcatchers to work hard for your profit. No telling how many people are alive today precisely as the result of this forward management on the part of insurers.

[freakazoid]

Hey, me and Trout may disagree on this but this is hitting below the belt!

It was actually a really badass name for that dog and fit him to a tee. You know me though, can't resist a chance at a cheap shot.

[candrew]

I don't like pit bulls, but I don't think they are inherently dangerous. I wouldn't support banning them.

They most certainly are inherently dangerous. Not all of them; but many who were bred wrong or have fighting in their bloodline become out of control after about 18 months; which is about the time their jaws fully develop. I personally know two people who got pit bulls when they were puppies did all the right things and had to put them down before they were two because they were overly aggressive. One of them literally tore their family cat in half

My wife used to manage a no-kill pet shelter and they stopped taking in pit bulls because they are just too unpredictable.

[bigb]

My brother-in-law has a pitbull. It's certainly never showed any signs of aggression towards me or my kids. My neighbor two doors down has a German Shepherd from hell. That dog almost killed a neighbors dog and has bit at least two humans, one bad enough to take to the doctor. But growing up, we had a neighbor with a German Shepherd and they never had any problems with it. One of the funnest and nicest dogs I've ever associated with. I've worked in houses with all kinds of dogs in them. The only problem I've ever had in that situation are the little yappers. They always try to take a piece out of my heel after they let me past. I hate those damn things. I swear one day it's going to happen and I'm going to turn around and kick the dog all way down the street. Why would you let someone in your house to work and let your dog go after them?

[jazzman12]

Trout Wrote:

There is a reason you can't have a Tiger, Chimp, Wolf, or Bear as a pet, and I think that PB's are in the same class.

Actually, my family pets growing up were 2 malamute/wolf hybrids who's bloodlines were about half wolf. They were the most gentle, loving, and loyal pets I've had to date. However, having the size of a malamute and the tenacity of a wolf made them extremely dangerous when fighting other dogs. The male we had got into it quite a few times with other large dogs and the results were devestating for the other animal. While I tend to defend wolf hybrids, I can totally understand how a mistreated one can become a bigger danger than most of your normal breeds.

It's the same problem with pitbulls. I dislike the breed, but I also understand that it has just as much to do with the idiots who own them. It's hard to outlaw a breed when the majority of the problem is the people. Up in Ogden, if you go into the animal shelter I'd take a guess that as much as 80% of the dogs up there are Pitt Bulls that are no longer wanted. As has already been mentioned in this tread, there's this type of gangland aura associated with those dogs and all of the wanna be thugs feel like they gotta own one. Maybe shooting the owners in the head is the best answer?

[One Brow]

Luckily those dogs attacked a big Polly and not a child or elderly person --

It's not just luck. Pit bulls were bred to attack other dogs, but not attack humans. It's a couple of centuries of selection at work. Of course, abuse can overcome that breeding.