Obvious Moves the Jazz Should Make this Offseason
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
- Start date
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
Maybe... Rudy Gay is probably a terrible example since he was so awful. Likely changing the way a guy who sucked was used is likely not going to help him. I don't think Quin would have been the first to try Thad as a center and use him as a roll man... once its been proved by others maybe.
Maybe a better example is a player like Gary Payton. Back when I was pushing the Shaq Harrison stock GP was another guy I thought was a good potential wing type to use... but I think Quin would see them as point guards and not play them as a wing... where their strengths on defense can be utilized and their offense could be better if they just sit in the corner.
None of our deep bench guys has turned out to be very good in other spots so I might be being unfair here.
Yeah maybe....the thing about guys on the fringe is that they have to find the right situation. I don't think it's necessarily bad that coaches have their systems and that not everyone can succeed everywhere. GP didn't work out a lot of places, but I don't necessarily blame the coaches or situations for not having a fringe player hit. The Warriors were about to drop GP themselves and there's plenty of examples of guys that were cut/almost cut and then went on to succeed. Sometimes in a much needed role for the team that dropped him. There's just a lot that goes into having success.
Quin has brought up a ton of guys through his system. So while his system may not be for GP, it was good for O'Neale, Ingles, House, Juancho, Niang etc.
The problem stems from the fact that if Rudy Gobert isn't on the floor, the rest of the rotation can't defend or rebound. Wanting to play Rudy is a survival instinct.
The theory behind going small and spread at the 5 is that all 5 guys on the floor defend, all 5 guys rebound, and all 5 guys shoot. The Jazz don't have the personnel to do that. You can't go small at the 5, when none of Bojan, Royce or Mitchell can be relied upon to guard and rebound. Also, the way Rudy Gay was bricking shots and getting blown by on defense meant that Rudy Gay doesn't fit a 5-out lineup either. Even Rudy Gay needs Gobert on the floor backing him up.
All the people in the replace Rudy Gobert camp need to come to grips with the fact that the only reason we were even in the playoffs this year was Rudy Gobert. He represents the floor of this team, and in some ways the ceiling. Without what Rudy provides, as presently constituted, this team would be late lottery at best. Any proposed trades need to take into account the fact that 1) NO ONE ELSE plays any semblance of defense on this team and 2) NO ONE ELSE rebounds for **** on this team. These 2 things need to be replaced at a minimum to even begin to start starting about beginning to think about replacing Rudy.
Dennis Lindsey built this roster using a Spurs-like model and analytics. The result is small guards who playmake, but don't defend. Wings space the floor, but don't do much else. Bigs guard the paint, set screens and roll to the rim to create vertical spacing, but they can't score on their own. The Jazz are rigid based on their roster construction.
When you look at how DL built this team, it becomes clear why he wanted to draft Dok and not Bane or McDaniels. Dok is the best rim protector and rim finisher. Duh.
The problem is that teams with more length, athleticism and floor balance will keep beating the Jazz. The Jazz are very matchup dependent. It's like they're playing rock-paper-scissors. When they play paper, they win. When they run up against a rock, they lose. The problem is that the whole league is going to the 5-out, switchy athletic defender model, where everyone on the floor can defend, rebound and score at some level, and the Jazz have a congenital inability to beat teams who play that way.
Royce can't score. Mike can't score on bigger defenders without a screen. No one aside from Rudy defends. There are holes everywhere.
The entire Jazz system is built with Rudy as the foundation, whether it's his defense and rebounding on one end, or his screen-setting and gravity at the rim on offense. However, this entire system needs to change.
When you look at how DL built this team, it becomes clear why he wanted to draft Dok and not Bane or McDaniels. Dok is the best rim protector and rim finisher. Duh.
The problem is that teams with more length, athleticism and floor balance will keep beating the Jazz. The Jazz are very matchup dependent. It's like they're playing rock-paper-scissors. When they play paper, they win. When they run up against a rock, they lose. The problem is that the whole league is going to the 5-out, switchy athletic defender model, where everyone on the floor can defend, rebound and score at some level, and the Jazz have a congenital inability to beat teams who play that way.
Royce can't score. Mike can't score on bigger defenders without a screen. No one aside from Rudy defends. There are holes everywhere.
The entire Jazz system is built with Rudy as the foundation, whether it's his defense and rebounding on one end, or his screen-setting and gravity at the rim on offense. However, this entire system needs to change.
Last edited:
LoPo
Well-Known Member
It won't be easy for sure. Any Rudy trade idea needs to address these 2 important questions.
Can we replace Rudy and:
#1 Be as good in the 2022-23 OR 2023-24 regular season as we were in 2021-22 (in other words be a non-playin playoff team)?
#2 Be built better for the playoffs by having stronger depth, youthful athleticism and positional flexibility?
If a trade answers these questions with a yes, and I believe we can find that trade, then we should do it.
Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
If it were me, I'd trade Gobert while some teams in the league still value old-school bigs. I'd unload Conley, Bogdanovic and Gay to the highest bidders.
I'd give Quin the one year remaining on his contract to show how he can coach a retooled roster, and I'd give Donovan another year to improve and commit to the direction of the program. At the end of the year, I'd re-evaluate Quin and Donovan's situation.
I'd give Quin the one year remaining on his contract to show how he can coach a retooled roster, and I'd give Donovan another year to improve and commit to the direction of the program. At the end of the year, I'd re-evaluate Quin and Donovan's situation.
Cptgrnlngs22
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t really call it a trade Rudy camp nor like a what’s next for the jazz camp. I side with Rudy over Don but the Jazz clearly do not and thus mine and most of Jazz nations opinion do not matter. If there is an all star traded out this offseason 5-1 says it’s Rudy.
Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Cptgrnlngs22
Well-Known Member
I honestly think no matter what the trade is we are going to take a step back if we trade Gobert. I think we can retool around Mitchell and be back to a competitive playoff team in a couple years if Mitchell decides to stick around. I just don’t think he wants to be here.
Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
This could work if Detroit gives the Jazz a top-7 lottery pick this year, and Golden State gives the Jazz 2 future 1sts.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yyk5tc3o
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yyk5tc3o
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
And our wins decrease by 17. That's getting our tank on.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
Which to me is why you just blow this **** up and do it now. Rudy being our best player has a ceiling. More teams are able to gameplan against him now... he gets really spendy going forward... its just time.
Building around a player with flaws like Donovan has is going to have a ceiling too... and a much lower potential floor. But I'd say do it anyway if I thought we had a 3-5 year runway. Currently we have maybe 1-1.5 years and with the amount of change that needs to happen its destined to fail about as badly as the new re-brand has. Donovan, Royce, JC will all be at Ross in 12 months when we could have gotten a department store price for them (maybe semi-annual discount but still better than Ross).
PrimaDonovan
Banned
Obvious Move #1:
Trade Donovan
Trade Donovan
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Release the Kraken
Well-Known Member
I don’t mind your Gobert trade scenario listed below even if it does give a -17 projection, but then I’m higher on Dok’s potential than anybody on this board. But Bogey is untouchable in my book (you’ll see) and Conley is not worth trading for pennies on the dollar. Yeah Gay probably has to go.
Release the Kraken
Well-Known Member
Really!!! This cat is much cooler than Cy- best moniker I’ve seen in ages! Hold on, maybe, let’s see if he closes every sentence with LMAO.
We'd draft a stud in the lottery -- Tari Eason or Dyson Daniels.