Competing while allowing Dante Exum to develop
- Thread starter karl malone
- Start date
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
They need to move Burke and bring in a player that fits Quin's style, system and defensive culture better.
Doublea
Well-Known Member
Trade Burke and something else, for Jerian Grant in this draft? Or should they trade him and bring in a more vet/role player PG backup? Or bring Neto over?
Or just draft Grant.
karl malone
Well-Known Member
Suggesting that Burks replace Exum as the starting PG next year was in no way meant as an indictment of the 19 yr old, or to imply that a team with him as it's starting PG can't compete (obviously it can, considering we have been doing just that), nor is it to say that Alec Burks has the skillset required to handle the 1 for long periods of time (although obviously I feel that he is capable of doing so in spurts, given the right matchup). The main point(s) I was trying to make was that we have the foundation to compete next year (maybe not for a championship, but possibly the 4/5 seed- with the right additions) but not the offensive firepower or versatility necessary to make that type of jump. GH, DF, & RG have shown this year that they are not only able to hold their own against the best in the league, but they are ready to consistently win as soon as next year.Now, while I certainly don't foresee Dante Exum being the deciding factor in whether or not that happens (next year), I do feel strongly that we will be a fringe playoff team at best next season, unless we are able to remedy (or, at the very least, greatly reduce) our offensive limitations over the off-season.
The majority of our post ASG (& yearly) success has been due to our defense & pass first style of offense (& general overall style of team basketball), 2 things that Dante does well (which is really a huge testament to the character & potential of a player his age). These are the staples of QS's system, so it makes sense to continue the long-term commitment that was made to DE when he was inserted into the starting lineup & not risk messing with team chemistry. I just think that us vaulting ourselves into the top of the conference next year is contingent on who the 5th member of the starting unit is. As of now, AB is our projected starting SG, which does not appear (at least on paper- tho QS may be one of the few coaches that could make it work) to be a starting 5 that will provide enough offense (although Hood may be the better fit stylistically due to his outside shooting- tho I question his current readiness & ability to hold up over a full season), even to go along with what will certainly still be a top-notch defense.
If this year has proven anything- besides the fact that Rudy Gobert is 1 of the top 5 most impactful big men in the NBA- is that, if anything can make up for offensive inefficiencies, it's elite defense. That being said, you can't be truly competitive in this NBA, without the flexibility to be able to adjust to the many different matchup & stylistic challenges that an NBA team regularly faces on a nightly basis- even more vital in a playoff series. If the Jazz are to truly compete next season, which seems to be the consensus, they will need to improve offensively & my suggestion of Alec Burks playing PG stems from my distrust of Trey Burke's ability to carry a 2nd unit for an entire season, along with my concerns of his lack of offensive efficiency & inability to consistently involve the other 4 players on the court with him, as well as the general lack of realistic offensive options at that position. If we are to become more than the gritty, inconsistent, yet talented team next year, that we have been this year, we will need our starting SG to be able to shoot (well) & the ability to (at the very least) put an offensively capable rotation on the court (hence AB @ PG + our SG who can shoot + GH +DF +RG), when the game situation dictates that we do so (& as much as I like DE'S long-term offensive potential, AB is clearly currently the better offensive player at this point in their careers).
In summary:
-No, AB is not a PG.
-Yes, DE is our PG of the future & we have been winning with him as the starter.
-No, AB is not likely to overtake DE as the starter next season.
-Yes, we need to improve offensively & playing AB @ the 1, at times, (given that we cannot find a more suitable option- I agree with whoever brought up I.Thomas & think it would have been given greater consideration had we been as successful as we have been post trade-deadline) may be an alternative solution to doing that.
-Yes, we are headed in the right direction & shouldn't do anything that could possibly disrupt that. Just think that we could be able to compete, without compromising our long-term success.
-Yes, regardless of what happens (personnel wise) from here on out (given that we retain our core) this team has, not only one of the brighter short-term outlooks, but one of the brightest long-term outlooks in the entire league.
The majority of our post ASG (& yearly) success has been due to our defense & pass first style of offense (& general overall style of team basketball), 2 things that Dante does well (which is really a huge testament to the character & potential of a player his age). These are the staples of QS's system, so it makes sense to continue the long-term commitment that was made to DE when he was inserted into the starting lineup & not risk messing with team chemistry. I just think that us vaulting ourselves into the top of the conference next year is contingent on who the 5th member of the starting unit is. As of now, AB is our projected starting SG, which does not appear (at least on paper- tho QS may be one of the few coaches that could make it work) to be a starting 5 that will provide enough offense (although Hood may be the better fit stylistically due to his outside shooting- tho I question his current readiness & ability to hold up over a full season), even to go along with what will certainly still be a top-notch defense.
If this year has proven anything- besides the fact that Rudy Gobert is 1 of the top 5 most impactful big men in the NBA- is that, if anything can make up for offensive inefficiencies, it's elite defense. That being said, you can't be truly competitive in this NBA, without the flexibility to be able to adjust to the many different matchup & stylistic challenges that an NBA team regularly faces on a nightly basis- even more vital in a playoff series. If the Jazz are to truly compete next season, which seems to be the consensus, they will need to improve offensively & my suggestion of Alec Burks playing PG stems from my distrust of Trey Burke's ability to carry a 2nd unit for an entire season, along with my concerns of his lack of offensive efficiency & inability to consistently involve the other 4 players on the court with him, as well as the general lack of realistic offensive options at that position. If we are to become more than the gritty, inconsistent, yet talented team next year, that we have been this year, we will need our starting SG to be able to shoot (well) & the ability to (at the very least) put an offensively capable rotation on the court (hence AB @ PG + our SG who can shoot + GH +DF +RG), when the game situation dictates that we do so (& as much as I like DE'S long-term offensive potential, AB is clearly currently the better offensive player at this point in their careers).
In summary:
-No, AB is not a PG.
-Yes, DE is our PG of the future & we have been winning with him as the starter.
-No, AB is not likely to overtake DE as the starter next season.
-Yes, we need to improve offensively & playing AB @ the 1, at times, (given that we cannot find a more suitable option- I agree with whoever brought up I.Thomas & think it would have been given greater consideration had we been as successful as we have been post trade-deadline) may be an alternative solution to doing that.
-Yes, we are headed in the right direction & shouldn't do anything that could possibly disrupt that. Just think that we could be able to compete, without compromising our long-term success.
-Yes, regardless of what happens (personnel wise) from here on out (given that we retain our core) this team has, not only one of the brighter short-term outlooks, but one of the brightest long-term outlooks in the entire league.
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Otis Day
Well-Known Member
Wow...you are seeing something totally different than I am. Exum has been very good in pick and roll defense. He works hard to get over screens, and when he does get picked off his recovery speed is great. This will only get better as he gets stronger, but I still see this as a strength, not a weakness.
Farmer.Tan
Well-Known Member
Wow...you are seeing something totally different than I am. Exum has been very good in pick and roll defense. He works hard to get over screens, and when he does get picked off his recovery speed is great. This will only get better as he gets stronger, but I still see this as a strength, not a weakness.
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Earlier in the year, exum couldn't fight his way through a wet paper bag. His ability to fight through a screen has improved greatly. Exum is playing solid basketball right now. His progress has been gradual, almost to the point of being unnoticeable. But it has been steady.
It was a very ballsy move of Q to insert Dante into the starting lineup...but Trey isn't ever getting that spot back.
1 - he was not fired
2- Defense was probably 60% of why he was not renewed, not because he tried Burks at PG.
3- So...yea.
We should do nothing to impede the development of Exum into our premier point guard. Anything that Burks could do to help can and should happen with him playing WITH Exum, not instead of Exum.
The bigger question is why we offered such a big contract to Burks when he's not even the type of SG we want for our starting lineup. I guess we can't really afford to lose him though and the salary won't seem that bad come 2016, but it still concerns me. As I mentioned before, we need an upgrade at SG so that we can keep Alex Burks in the sixth man role. Better suits our needs and his talents.
The bigger question is why we offered such a big contract to Burks when he's not even the type of SG we want for our starting lineup. I guess we can't really afford to lose him though and the salary won't seem that bad come 2016, but it still concerns me. As I mentioned before, we need an upgrade at SG so that we can keep Alex Burks in the sixth man role. Better suits our needs and his talents.
Quin also has lauded Exum's P&R defense. He's extremely advanced on that end of the floor for a player so young/raw. Length, quickness, and effort just do wonders.
Honestly, Exum looks just fine in my eyes. He's not dominating offensively, that's very clear, but he doesn't need to. He's handling the ball well, knocking down open shots, and playing great defense. His #'s will come up over the next few seasons.
Forget stats, if you told me Dante would be our starting PG the last 1/3 of the season, playing solid, and we'd be winning, I would have been thrilled. I'm excited about the kid.
Honestly, Exum looks just fine in my eyes. He's not dominating offensively, that's very clear, but he doesn't need to. He's handling the ball well, knocking down open shots, and playing great defense. His #'s will come up over the next few seasons.
Forget stats, if you told me Dante would be our starting PG the last 1/3 of the season, playing solid, and we'd be winning, I would have been thrilled. I'm excited about the kid.
I think you hit the nail on the head - the cap bonanza in 2016 makes his deal more tolerable. With how young our team is (especially at the time he was extended), it's hard to predict exactly how things were going to unfold at the time he was extended. I think DL saw the chance to extend a good young player at a reasonable price and pulled the trigger. I like Burks at this price tag - no issue with it. And he's still so young. Different players/skill sets, but look at the leap Hayward made this year.
If two years from now it's clear that Exum and Hood are going to be stars and better fits than AB, we'll move him then. Otherwise, pairing Exum, Burks, and Hayward in the backcourt with Burke and Hood off the bench sounds just fine to me.
Shaun Livingston. Make it happen.
karl malone
Well-Known Member
Original post was admittedly over the top, just trying to make my point (prob too emphatically). Please refer to my most recent post on page 5 to clarify my true stance on this subject.
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gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
OMG! Did you just make a post that was less than 1000 words?
green
Well-Known Member
Argh. Seriously? Let me spell it out very simply. We tried Burks at PG. He is a subpar PG. He is a solid to above average to maybe better than that SG. It would be stupid to play him at PG when he is so much better as a SG.
We already tried him at PG. It failed. Why try it again? Isn't that the definition of insanity?
It was Corbin's system. Imagine him in Exum's role. He will hit 3s and he will have his open lanes. He just needs to kick it out sometimes. Something he was improving on.