MDAV28
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It's not worth it man.
Looking for a new team
- Thread starter franklin
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It's not worth it man.
fishonjazz
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Word. Good advice.
Shad
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Just like taking Gordo over Paul George LOL! Who, guess what? Carried his team into the playoffs.
Fakers Luck
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When the Jazz had high picks in 2011, they whiffed, while the two best teams during this past regular season hit home runs that year (Klay T./Kawhi L.). When Millsap and Big Al were lame ducks, the Jazz just sat on their thumbs and got nada. All they got was "flexibility". No free agents came, no lucrative trades were made to fill the space with studs/high picks, so the cap relief/flexibility story was total bunk.
It's tough to look back and not get frustrated. When all is said and done...life is too short to let this stupid game make me an emotional wreck. I have to take a step back, not spend money to support the organization, and just chill. It can still be fun to keep tabs on the draft, player development and whatnot as long as i don't become too emotionally invested. I keep getting sucked back in though if I catch a game on tv. A 30 year habit is tough to break.
Cappy_Smurf
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I just printed this out and wiped my *** with it. My *** deserves better.
green
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I agree with GVC on all this. I said this in an earlier thread, but compare this team to Deron's team:
Deron > Exum
I don't even remember who the two guard was. I won't remember Burks/Hood in six years either, so a wash.
AK=Hayward
Boozer>Favors
Memo>Gobert
So, the chances of this team being as good as Deron's are slim to none, and that team's ceiling was a fourth seed?
green
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I've said this 100 times in other threads, but if Gordon and Favors are our best players, we aren't going far.
Exum is a couple years away from his ceiling. Gobert is 50% of a great player, 50% a DLeague player.
IF you can move Favors and/or Hayward for a top 3 pick next year (ala Brooklyn's) DO IT.
We aren't going anywhere with this team. Getting a top 3 pick next year at least gives you hope.
Right, any hope in this team is a person living in ignorance. Especially when you look around at the teams next to Utah. Minnesota is about to blow by Utah, NO has better top end talent than Utah, as does Sacramento. Portland will only get better. LA won't be down for long. GS isn't going anywhere. The Clippers will continue to be better than Utah. SA with LA and Leonard will be better.
Utah's ceiling with this group is a 7-8 seed. Most years we will be 8-10...just like Big Al and Corbin. Yikes.
Exum is a couple years away from his ceiling. Gobert is 50% of a great player, 50% a DLeague player.
IF you can move Favors and/or Hayward for a top 3 pick next year (ala Brooklyn's) DO IT.
We aren't going anywhere with this team. Getting a top 3 pick next year at least gives you hope.
Right, any hope in this team is a person living in ignorance. Especially when you look around at the teams next to Utah. Minnesota is about to blow by Utah, NO has better top end talent than Utah, as does Sacramento. Portland will only get better. LA won't be down for long. GS isn't going anywhere. The Clippers will continue to be better than Utah. SA with LA and Leonard will be better.
Utah's ceiling with this group is a 7-8 seed. Most years we will be 8-10...just like Big Al and Corbin. Yikes.
Douchebag K
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They also had Fisher, AK and Harpring contributing a lot on that team to winning. If you give this current Jazz team the same lvl of players as those three I think they make the playoffs just fine next year. Also he was comparing NBA exp not age. Favors came in to the league younger than Boozer and memo.
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Duh, captain of the pessimist unless its the Utes.
DWill is better than Exum. But we only saw Exum as a 19 year old rookie. I think Exum has a higher ceiling. Lets give him time to see what happens. If Exum can average 11 points and 4 assists in 29 minutes a game this season he is on the same track as DWill since Exum will be the same age this coming season as DWills's rookie year.
Ill take Hood/Burk and their potential over Giracek and Brewer
Ill take Hayward over AK. I wish AK did more but once DWill and company were on the team he was not at the level of Hayward. Ak was a better defender but Hayward was solid this season. Hayward is a much better offensive player. At the same age in the NBA AK averaged 8 points and 3 assists. Hayward averaged 20 points and 3 assists. Hayward also averaged more rebounds.
Boozer and Favors at the same age averaged the same amount of points and the same rebounds. Favors is on another level defensively compared to Boozer at that age. Favors is a much better all around player. He would thrive if he had Dwill as a PG and Memo spacing the floor for him.
Memo is better than Gobert but they are about opposites. Was Memo a better offensive player than Gobert is a defensive player? Gobert is the same age this season as Memo's rookie year where he averaged 7 points per game.
Hayward and DWill had about the same college experience before the NBA. Age 26 was the best year for DWIll, lets see what Hayward does next year. They are not that far off from each others lvl of play at 25.
This roster currently has more upside. They are better than those players at this age. The Jazz the year they went to the playoffs had some veteran presence this team doesnt have. The future of this team looks bright and has a good upside. Some of those Jazz players took some jumps the next years after the same ages as our current Jazz players. Why wouldn't you hope or think our current players could make those jumps?
Not sure how people dont see any upside with this roster. They are quite young and playing very well for their age.
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Douchebag K
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Exum was also very good at feeding Gobert. No one else seems to consistently put the ball in the right place for him. It will be nice to have a real PG who likes to pass and thinks about who to get the ball to, where they should get it and when.
Douchebag K
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i don't remember Rudy dropping anywhere near as many of Exum's passes as others. I think Dante's passing was underrated given his experience level. He always seemed to make the right pass on a fast break, and showed really good vision. He's a point, pure and simple. Don't agree with the whole combo guard view of him.
fishonjazz
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There were more than 4 players on each team though first off. 2nd, we don't know if memo > gobert with 2 more years under his belt. We don't know how good exum will be in two years.
Lyles and hood and Burks two years from now might be better than the 5th, 6th, and 7th best players on d-wills team.
D-wills team was spending hella cash (ak was getting paid big time) and I remember then being over the salary cap. This team has lots o money to spend. I don't think d-wills team had a stockpile of future first round draft picks coming up.
It's obvious that d-will team is better than this team currently. This team is not ready yet. Give them a few years and I could see their ceiling being as good as d will team. Which would be a good thing. That team was lots of fun to watch imo.
We won't ever be true contenders without a super star though. You have to be really lucky to be a contender. Right now if you don't have durant, curry, lebron, or pop with leonard aldridge and a bunch of hall of famers then you don't have a chance.
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fishonjazz
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Lol
Demarre carroll shot 39% from the field this year. 11 ppg. 29 years old. 1 assist per game. In the playoffs he is averaging 4.8 ponts per game in 18 minutes per game.
Kanter cries like a bitch and screws up chemistry and demands a trade. (kanter would be our 4th big)
Now lets give your hypothetical team injuries similar to what the jazz suffered this year.
Veteran point guard doesn't play a single game. Mack is your pg.
Favors misses 20 games. Millsap misses 20 games. Hood misses over 50 games.
We already established that carroll currently isn't very good.
That team misses the playoffs and is much more expensive and older than our current team with a lot less potential to get better and doesn't have a stockpile of draft picks coming their way.
I like the current team better than that one.
That team definitely is not a contender either.
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fishonjazz
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I want to dive a little deeper into the comparison with the d-will led team.
We all know that team was better this current team is. Lets look at a few reasons why.
Player peaks: Was deron ever better before or after those years? Im betting the answer is no. He was at his absolute peak as a player. Same goes for boozer. Same goes for memo. AK had better years before that time but he was still in his prime and near his peak.
How many current jazz players are at their peak for sure? Probably zero. Maybe Hayward is just barely peaking.
Experience: Im not going to look up each players age but im thinking that the ages are similar from the core of that team (d-will, boozer, memo, ak) to this team (gobert, favors, Hayward, exum, hood, burks). (I would bet that our core is the younger of the two though)
However, d-will played 3 years of college at Illinois and averaged 27, 34, and 34 minutes per game in those years. That is some pretty good experience and developing time.
Boozer played 3 years at duke under coach k and won a national championship. He then played 2 years with Cleveland before ever coming to the jazz.
Memo played in turkey and won a championship in 2002. was drafted by the pistons and played for them for 2 years and won an nba championship there. (memo was older than any of our core players)
AK: before d-will, memo, and boozer all arrived AK had was already a three time all nba defensive player and an all star.
They also had Derek fisher and matt harpring.
Looking at that team, they were young and well built. KOC did a great job of assembling that team. But the key was getting lucky in the draft with d-will. He was a true star. An elite player. Was an all star 5 years in a row with the jazz. Always averaging around 20 points per game and 10 assists per game (one year he averaged 12.8 assists per game!)
Those guys were coached by a hall of fame coach. The current guys were coached by ty corbin. Exum, and lyles are babies. much younger than any of the guys on that d-will team.
The big difference between this current jazz team and that jazz team is D-will. They got lucky and hit a home run in the draft. That's what the current management has tried to do. They had the #3 pick and #12 pick in one draft. The #14 and #21 (iirc) that they traded to get the #9 pick and then bought the #27 pick in another draft. They had the #5 pick and #21 in another draft. Then the #12 pick. They have a bunch of future drafts with multiple first round picks coming up. They traded for favors (the #3 pick). They have tried really hard to find another d-will caliber player in the draft and it has not happened yet. D-will was what made that team what is was and they got to the western conference finals 1 time (because they got lucky that an 8 seed beat a #1 seed) and then got destroyed by the spurs.
I think the jazz have had a plan to get as many good draft picks as possible (they have done a good job of that part of the plan) and hope to find and develop another d-will caliber player. Its not always easy though and not always quick. They still have many up coming draft picks, they have a lot of cash to spend, and they still have a lot of untapped potential talent on the current roster. They are doing fine. All they have to do is have one star player (via draft, free agency, trade, or development of a player currently on the roster) and they are golden.
THE JAZZ WERE A TEAM ON THE FRINGE OF THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR WITH ONE OF THE YOUNGEST AND MOST INJURED TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE AND HAVE A TON OF SALARY CAP SPACE AND A TON OF FUTURE DRAFT PICKS COMING UP.
I don't understand how someone can read that sentence and see only doom and gloom. Doesn't make sense to me.
We all know that team was better this current team is. Lets look at a few reasons why.
Player peaks: Was deron ever better before or after those years? Im betting the answer is no. He was at his absolute peak as a player. Same goes for boozer. Same goes for memo. AK had better years before that time but he was still in his prime and near his peak.
How many current jazz players are at their peak for sure? Probably zero. Maybe Hayward is just barely peaking.
Experience: Im not going to look up each players age but im thinking that the ages are similar from the core of that team (d-will, boozer, memo, ak) to this team (gobert, favors, Hayward, exum, hood, burks). (I would bet that our core is the younger of the two though)
However, d-will played 3 years of college at Illinois and averaged 27, 34, and 34 minutes per game in those years. That is some pretty good experience and developing time.
Boozer played 3 years at duke under coach k and won a national championship. He then played 2 years with Cleveland before ever coming to the jazz.
Memo played in turkey and won a championship in 2002. was drafted by the pistons and played for them for 2 years and won an nba championship there. (memo was older than any of our core players)
AK: before d-will, memo, and boozer all arrived AK had was already a three time all nba defensive player and an all star.
They also had Derek fisher and matt harpring.
Looking at that team, they were young and well built. KOC did a great job of assembling that team. But the key was getting lucky in the draft with d-will. He was a true star. An elite player. Was an all star 5 years in a row with the jazz. Always averaging around 20 points per game and 10 assists per game (one year he averaged 12.8 assists per game!)
Those guys were coached by a hall of fame coach. The current guys were coached by ty corbin. Exum, and lyles are babies. much younger than any of the guys on that d-will team.
The big difference between this current jazz team and that jazz team is D-will. They got lucky and hit a home run in the draft. That's what the current management has tried to do. They had the #3 pick and #12 pick in one draft. The #14 and #21 (iirc) that they traded to get the #9 pick and then bought the #27 pick in another draft. They had the #5 pick and #21 in another draft. Then the #12 pick. They have a bunch of future drafts with multiple first round picks coming up. They traded for favors (the #3 pick). They have tried really hard to find another d-will caliber player in the draft and it has not happened yet. D-will was what made that team what is was and they got to the western conference finals 1 time (because they got lucky that an 8 seed beat a #1 seed) and then got destroyed by the spurs.
I think the jazz have had a plan to get as many good draft picks as possible (they have done a good job of that part of the plan) and hope to find and develop another d-will caliber player. Its not always easy though and not always quick. They still have many up coming draft picks, they have a lot of cash to spend, and they still have a lot of untapped potential talent on the current roster. They are doing fine. All they have to do is have one star player (via draft, free agency, trade, or development of a player currently on the roster) and they are golden.
THE JAZZ WERE A TEAM ON THE FRINGE OF THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR WITH ONE OF THE YOUNGEST AND MOST INJURED TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE AND HAVE A TON OF SALARY CAP SPACE AND A TON OF FUTURE DRAFT PICKS COMING UP.
I don't understand how someone can read that sentence and see only doom and gloom. Doesn't make sense to me.
MDAV28
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This is ridiculous.
There is 0 reason to believe we would have picked all those same players. Gobert maybe because that was a draft day trade (I will say an incredible draft day deal, Gobert should have gone top 5 in that draft and Jazz got him for cash). Hood was the GS pick when we took their salary dump to land Iguodala. We freed up that salary by letting Millsap and Jefferson walk. There likely is no Millsap and Hood team