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Favors secretly on the trade block?

fishonjazz said:
A couple I know of are Ron Mexico and cappy smurf.
I'm certain there are other too. Of course no is unequivocally against trading him (anyone would do a favors for lebron, steph, davis, kahwi, etc) but there are people who don't want to trade him and think he and Gobert are just fine together.
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If we had borderline all star Favors, I would be against trading him. However, at this point, I have serious doubts as to whether or not he'll ever be that player again, so I would trade him for the right deal.

My biggest argument was always against people who thought Lyles was the PF of the future and that he made Favors expendable. That was always nutty and unfair to a healthy Favors. If anything, I think we've seen how bad of an idea that was. If/when we do move on from Favors, I want a player that is strong defensively. Simply finding a player who helps spacing doesn't make us better if they are a liability on the defensive end. Good defense from the 4/5 is the foundation I want to see Utah build on.
 
I don't think there is a massive rush to deal Favors and I still think he is a great fit when healthy but I find it hard to believe he is worth the $20mil+/yr he will be demanding at the end of next season... Just makes me sad to see his regression this year because imo he is a huge part of our identity and massive factor in us being successful against the best sides.

Unless his mid range becomes automatic (like an Aldridge) and he stays healthy for 80% of next season I can't see the FO holding onto him.

Also, who would be in the market for an old school PF? Stretch 4/5's seem to be the flavor of the month in the nba.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
If we had borderline all star Favors, I would be against trading him. However, at this point, I have serious doubts as to whether or not he'll ever be that player again, so I would trade him for the right deal.

My biggest argument was always against people who thought Lyles was the PF of the future and that he made Favors expendable. That was always nutty and unfair to a healthy Favors. If anything, I think we've seen how bad of an idea that was. If/when we do move on from Favors, I want a player that is strong defensively. Simply finding a player who helps spacing doesn't make us better if they are a liability on the defensive end. Good defense from the 4/5 is the foundation I want to see Utah build on.
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People overvalue fit over quality. If you want fit you might as well get Luke Babbit to play with Gobert. He can space the floor better than most options being thrown around. Is that a good idea, though? Not really. Babbit is just not particularly good player and even though he can stretch the floor he's so bad in other areas that it would crash down our team.

If we have border-line all-star Favors I see no reason to trade him and I'd make everything possible to retain him. Just several months ago we thought it's all but a done deal that he will be restructured and extended, nobody was thinking that we are freeing capspace to R&E Hill... you know why? Because Favors has been the better player than Hill for the last 2-3 years before this year's injuries. He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play the game. I'd contend even in his current injured/limited condition he's head and shoulders above anything else we have. He's still an amazing positional and team defender, even if he lacks lift. You just have to watch him on D and see the precision of his rotations and help defense, the small things he does, like taking small steps to the side to impeded opposing players running around screens. None of our other bigs do that. He still makes the right plays on offense(UNLIKE Lyles, who for some reason has forgotten how pass and find the open man in favor of getting contested floaters in the lane). If you look at his shooting splits offensively, you can argue he's showing some good signs of improvement and expanding his game. His shooting from almost all ranges is at career high or close to career high. The only thing that massively brings him down is the thing that requires him to be the healthy athletic beast we know him to be - the finishing around the rim and drawing fouls. He's currently shooting at around 53%, which is about 20% lower than his finishing around the rim in the last 4-5 years!!!! I don't know how to emphasize this enough. This is insane disparity between what he was and what he's doing now! This is the entirety of his struggles right now. If he was shooting at the rim what he shot last year, he'd be having a career year right now(pace or minutes adjusted). This is about 90% of his struggles right now. The other 10 is things he can't do on D, that he used to do, again because of him seemingly lacking lift and explosion.

With all that said, I'm not on principle against trading Favors, I'm just against trading him for pennies on the dollar at his lowest trade value ever. If it were me and the negotiations with Hill went nowhere, I'd try to strike a deal with Favors with declining salary in the future and use his current form/injuries as a negotiation tool to try to make him agree to a R&E at 23-21-15-15 or something of that sort. I think this contract will be a bargain in the last two years. Of course this all is with the caveat that our medical staff doesn't expect some long-term health issues and they truly think he just needs time off in the off-season to get it all fixed.
 
We shouldn't trade him unless we get a good player in return. Even if that player is older, he's got to provide at least what Favors is providing right now which isn't much.

We have the assets to improve the value of a Favors trade if we find the right player who is available. We don't need late first rounders or to pay Favors $20+ in 18 months.

For every aspect of this, I just hate to see how much he is struggling.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
stitches said:
People overvalue fit over quality. If you want fit you might as well get Luke Babbit to play with Gobert. He can space the floor better than most options being thrown around. Is that a good idea, though? Not really. Babbit is just not particularly good player and even though he can stretch the floor he's so bad in other areas that it would crash down our team.

If we have border-line all-star Favors I see no reason to trade him and I'd make everything possible to retain him. Just several months ago we thought it's all but a done deal that he will be restructured and extended, nobody was thinking that we are freeing capspace to R&E Hill... you know why? Because Favors has been the better player than Hill for the last 2-3 years before this year's injuries. He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play the game. I'd contend even in his current injured/limited condition he's head and shoulders above anything else we have. He's still an amazing positional and team defender, even if he lacks lift. You just have to watch him on D and see the precision of his rotations and help defense, the small things he does, like taking small steps to the side to impeded opposing players running around screens. None of our other bigs do that. He still makes the right plays on offense(UNLIKE Lyles, who for some reason has forgotten how pass and find the open man in favor of getting contested floaters in the lane). If you look at his shooting splits offensively, you can argue he's showing some good signs of improvement and expanding his game. His shooting from almost all ranges is at career high or close to career high. The only thing that massively brings him down is the thing that requires him to be the healthy athletic beast we know him to be - the finishing around the rim and drawing fouls. He's currently shooting at around 53%, which is about 20% lower than his finishing around the rim in the last 4-5 years!!!! I don't know how to emphasize this enough. This is insane disparity between what he was and what he's doing now! This is the entirety of his struggles right now. If he was shooting at the rim what he shot last year, he'd be having a career year right now(pace or minutes adjusted). This is about 90% of his struggles right now. The other 10 is things he can't do on D, that he used to do, again because of him seemingly lacking lift and explosion.

With all that said, I'm not on principle against trading Favors, I'm just against trading him for pennies on the dollar at his lowest trade value ever. If it were me and the negotiations with Hill went nowhere, I'd try to strike a deal with Favors with declining salary in the future and use his current form/injuries as a negotiation tool to try to make him agree to a R&E at 23-21-15-15 or something of that sort. I think this contract will be a bargain in the last two years. Of course this all is with the caveat that our medical staff doesn't expect some long-term health issues and they truly think he just needs time off in the off-season to get it all fixed.
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The first part of the post is a bit ridiculous. Using a Babbit versus Favors comparison to show the fit versus talent is kinda silly. Look how good we are with JJ at the four. He can't do it full time and likely is not around for much longer. My argument for considering a trade is that long term that is what will maximize the teams growth and can be had for less cap space than the twin towers model (at least I think so).

Favors injuries are troubling. Non contact wear and tear type injuries will likely only get worse. His value is not high but could get lower pretty easily.

If there isn't a good deal out there for him then absolutely keep him and look around at draft time or cross your fingers that he figures it out. My argument is that long term we are better off with a stretchy power wing and can use favors value and cap place holders in a better way. I'd suggest some trades but that is a counterproductive activity I've found.

I'm very decisive and have found i can live with mistakes I make being that way rather than waiting things out to later find them to be mistakes... just my personality. I see the value in waiting certain things out and admire those that have the patience and foresight for it. I just hope it is patience and faith and not fear and paralysis.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The first part of the post is a bit ridiculous. Using a Babbit versus Favors comparison to show the fit versus talent is kinda silly. Look how good we are with JJ at the four. He can't do it full time and likely is not around for much longer. My argument for considering a trade is that long term that is what will maximize the teams growth and can be had for less cap space than the twin towers model (at least I think so).

Favors injuries are troubling. Non contact wear and tear type injuries will likely only get worse. His value is not high but could get lower pretty easily.

If there isn't a good deal out there for him then absolutely keep him and look around at draft time or cross your fingers that he figures it out. My argument is that long term we are better off with a stretchy power wing and can use favors value and cap place holders in a better way. I'd suggest some trades but that is a counterproductive activity I've found.

I'm very decisive and have found i can live with mistakes I make being that way rather than waiting things out to later find them to be mistakes... just my personality. I see the value in waiting certain things out and admire those that have the patience and foresight for it. I just hope it is patience and faith and not fear and paralysis.
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The Babbit example was extreme on purpose but I believe it works even for much better players. You can throw Ryan Anderson, or Olynyk... and I still don't think the fit trumps the disparity in quality between healthy Favors and those players. To me fit comes into account only when the overall quality of the players we compare is pretty close. That's why for example I didn't mind the talks of Love for Favors in the summer. What I mind is things like Favors for Julius Randle or Favors for mid first. I see absolutely no reason to do a trade like this. I'd rather get 1.5 years of Favors at his current deal and then lose him for nothing than give him up for that laughable of a value.
 
stitches said:
The Babbit example was extreme on purpose but I believe it works even for much better players. You can throw Ryan Anderson, or Olynyk... and I still don't think the fit trumps the disparity in quality between healthy Favors and those players. To me fit comes into account only when the overall quality of the players we compare is pretty close. That's why for example I didn't mind the talks of Love for Favors in the summer. What I mind is things like Favors for Julius Randle or Favors for mid first. I see absolutely no reason to do a trade like this. I'd rather get 1.5 years of Favors at his current deal and then lose him for nothing than give him up for that laughable of a value.
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I disagree on Anderson versus Favs as they sit at their current health situations. I'd be looking at getting a guy like harkless, Wilson chandler, etc. that can switch out on the perimeter, hit an open jumper, and hold position in the post.

Before the nurkic trade would Favs have netted us Harkless and a first or Chandler and a first? I'd probably do one of those deals even though it might be 75% of what we could get at draft time. Say Favs gets hurt at the beginning of the season next year. He then has no trade value and his cap number hurts us... we'd have also poured in 2 years that he didn't help us. I guess we could sign him at a discount in that scenario but I'd be terrified to do that.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I disagree on Anderson versus Favs as they sit at their current health situations. I'd be looking at getting a guy like harkless, Wilson chandler, etc. that can switch out on the perimeter, hit an open jumper, and hold position in the post.

Before the nurkic trade would Favs have netted us Harkless and a first or Chandler and a first? I'd probably do one of those deals even though it might be 75% of what we could get at draft time. Say Favs gets hurt at the beginning of the season next year. He then has no trade value and his cap number hurts us... we'd have also poured in 2 years that he didn't help us. I guess we could sign him at a discount in that scenario but I'd be terrified to do that.
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Maybe we could trade him for DWill and the circle would be complete.
 
fishonjazz said:
A couple I know of are Ron Mexico and cappy smurf.
I'm certain there are other too. Of course no is unequivocally against trading him (anyone would do a favors for lebron, steph, davis, kahwi, etc) but there are people who don't want to trade him and think he and Gobert are just fine together.
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Can't take anyone srsly that goes by cappy smurf.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You don't deal someone at their absolute rock bottom trade value level, especially not if you think they can get better.

Melo isnt coming to Utah, don't be ignorant. And that would be a beyond terrible move even if he did want to come to Utah.

Atlanta isnt trading us Millsap to create a Favors/Howard front-court, don't be ignorant.
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ignorant.jpg
 
I'm perfectly fine just keeping Favors one more year on that absolute steal of a contract, making a deep playoff run, and waiving adios to him in 16 months.
We got nothing for Millsap, nothing for Jefferson, close to nothing for Boozer. And that is not bad management, that is just the reality of contracts for non superstar players.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE
 
Jazz4ever said:
I'm perfectly fine just keeping Favors one more year on that absolute steal of a contract, making a deep playoff run, and waiving adios to him in 16 months.
We got nothing for Millsap, nothing for Jefferson, close to nothing for Boozer. And that is not bad management, that is just the reality of contracts for non superstar players.
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I consider that the loss of an asset. We could have gotten so much for some of those players, AK and others. Small market contention is striking at the right time and drafting well. If a guy isn't part if the long term plan but you have a roster of guys who are, trade that odd guy out for something to build around the others.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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