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Quin has lost his mind

Archie Moses said:
Jazz can't hit. Rockets can't miss.

This comes down to who shows up, not what you're capable of. John and Karl just missed their shots too or am I missing something?
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Let's also not forget that John and Karl continually "choked" in the playoffs, until they didn't. If Twitter and Jazzfanz were around in those days (maybe Jazzfanz was), no doubt many of the same people now who hold them in hagiographic reverence would have, back in the day, been calling on the FO to get rid of the bums, break them up, rebuild, etc.

Jazz are playing poorly, no doubt. Houston, however, is the better team and a bad matchup. Again, for those people who wanted to face Houston out of some old school fanciful notion that true champions travel the hard road, I hope you're happy.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Quin definitely outsmarted himself. Hopefully, the Jazz will revert to their normal defense. Harden's offensive game has become as good as any guard in NBA history, including MJ. You just have to hope he has some bad games.
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Please don't compare Harden to MJ. Because of the 3's? Because of the Triple doubles? Are you aware of the Watered down defense that the "today" NBA roots are build from? "As good as any guard in NBA history, including MJ". What the hell are you smoking? Your not even allowed to play defense in today's NBA. Harden wouldn't make it through the first 3 quarters getting elbows to his ribs driving the lane with the 90's defenders. How old are you?? It is so damn obvious that you are younger than 35, it's not even funny. What else is going to come out of your mouth? Your capable of saying anything at this point, the stupidest thing that someone could think has already been said by you. Is Enes Kanter as good as Moses Malone? Lebron would probably dance circles around Larry Bird in his prime according to you. Ben Simmons is only a year away from being the guy that your find worthy enough before you start buying underwear with his name stitched in the ***. Baaahaaaaaaaaa!!!! You have me dying right now. When your balls do decide to drop, remember that a vasectomy is the greatest gift that you can provide to the intelligence of man kind. But lets face the facts. Someone with your condition is going to infect the world with 5 or 6 little rascals that are just like you. Further contributing to the over abundant population affected by the Dunning Kruger effect.

Harden is definitely by far ever as great as MJ. Your so right.
 
Jack Strop said:
Let's look at the performance by players Lindsey has acquired over the past few years:

Allen is ****
Bradley is ****
Neto is ****
Korver is ****
Thabo is ****
Udoh is ****
Exum is ****
Niang is ****

That's more than half the roster. Sure Rubio, Mitchell and Gobert have underperformed, but can you tell me what other GM has filled his roster with so many scrubs? And you tell me I'm wrong about Lindsey. That he's one of the best GM's in the league. That's complete bull ****. Lindsey needs to be fired.
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agreed. I suspected this 2 years ago and was vilified here over it.. or perhaps i had already ascended to super villain status by that point, i forget.
 
It took 2 away losses against one of the best teams to start this. I’m impressed. The thing is, morale seems to be down for some reason. If there is no motivation, there is no success. At this point, since players are healthy, it’s Snyder’s job to find what motivates them and do it. Trying new stuff produces the exact opposite result. I hope they gather themselves at home. It would be such a pity a team like the Jazz who are the game’s defensive influence to many others gets swept or do not give the Rockets a run for their money.
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
Please don't compare Harden to MJ. Because of the 3's? Because of the Triple doubles? Are you aware of the Watered down defense that the "today" NBA roots are build from? "As good as any guard in NBA history, including MJ". What the hell are you smoking? Your not even allowed to play defense in today's NBA. Harden wouldn't make it through the first 3 quarters getting elbows to his ribs driving the lane with the 90's defenders. How old are you?? It is so damn obvious that you are younger than 35, it's not even funny. What else is going to come out of your mouth? Your capable of saying anything at this point, the stupidest thing that someone could think has already been said by you. Is Enes Kanter as good as Moses Malone? Lebron would probably dance circles around Larry Bird in his prime according to you. Ben Simmons is only a year away from being the guy that your find worthy enough before you start buying underwear with his name stitched in the ***. Baaahaaaaaaaaa!!!! You have me dying right now. When your balls do decide to drop, remember that a vasectomy is the greatest gift that you can provide to the intelligence of man kind. But lets face the facts. Someone with your condition is going to infect the world with 5 or 6 little rascals that are just like you. Further contributing to the over abundant population affected by the Dunning Kruger effect.

Harden is definitely by far ever as great as MJ. Your so right.
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I'm 40 and I watched all the guys you are referring to. James Harden does stuff MJ never could. MJ was revolutionary in how he played. Wings didn't know how to guard him. The best defender of his era was 6'3" Joe Dumars who was about as athletic as Raymond Felton.

Every wing in today's game has to be able to defend on the perimeter. They train to guard guys who play like MJ. Even more, they now have to guard the 3. What Harden is doing offensively is incredible. Sure there was more contact in MJ's day, but you couldn't touch MJ. You couldn't hit him the same way other guys were getting hit.

For a concrete example, look at Reggie Miller. He played in that era and torched teams. Harden is miles better at everything than Reggie. Every facet of his game is much better than Reggie's.

So yes, Harden's offense can easily be compared to MJ. I actually think it's better. Harden is hitting step back 3's over 6'8" defenders. MJ hit fade away 14 footers over guys like Hornacek, Ehlo, Dumars, etc.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
elan_prodigy said:
Borderline sackable performance from Quin. Builds a defense for 4yrs then completely abandons it for some gimmicky rubbish because he has no confidence in:
a) what he's built
b) his players
c) ALL OF THE ABOVE
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It’s exactly what I thought today , after the first few minutes and Quinn sticks with the stupid game plan , even Chris Webber was getting frustrated...

I don’t blame any of the players or the offence , Quinn has screwed with their minds so much , even on offence , all they can think about is defence .
 
LoPo said:
I'm 40 and I watched all the guys you are referring to. James Harden does stuff MJ never could. MJ was revolutionary in how he played. Wings didn't know how to guard him. The best defender of his era was 6'3" Joe Dumars who was about as athletic as Raymond Felton.

Every wing in today's game has to be able to defend on the perimeter. They train to guard guys who play like MJ. Even more, they now have to guard the 3. What Harden is doing offensively is incredible. Sure there was more contact in MJ's day, but you couldn't touch MJ. You couldn't hit him the same way other guys were getting hit.

For a concrete example, look at Reggie Miller. He played in that era and torched teams. Harden is miles better at everything than Reggie. Every facet of his game is much better than Reggie's.

So yes, Harden's offense can easily be compared to MJ. I actually think it's better. Harden is hitting step back 3's over 6'8" defenders. MJ hit fade away 14 footers over guys like Hornacek, Ehlo, Dumars, etc.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I think you have some recency bias. Because never did a team do what we are doing to Harden to MJ. Because analytics didn't exist to drive coaches out of their minds.

Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Jack Strop said:
Did Quin turn the ball over repeatedly to start the game? Is Quin out there shooting bricks?
A coach is only as good as his players. I think you need to focus your frustration up the food chain. Which GM did absolutely NOTHING to improve his team last summer? Oh, sorry, let me rephrase that, "next to nothing," since Allen is an upgrade over Stockton.
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I think Dantoni is running circles around Snyder. He's completely exposed our offensive game plan. He's taken Mitchell completely out of his game and made Ingles softer than a pancake. I was listening to a Rockets assistant coach and he talked about making guys like Rubio and Crowder beat you. Crowder, a 33% three point shooter who is not only given a green light to shoot terrible shots, he's encouraged to.

While I agree, it's not all in him, I also think a lot if it is. Dude is a fantastic coach but I think he's getting it handed to him.
 
LoPo said:
I'm 40 and I watched all the guys you are referring to. James Harden does stuff MJ never could. MJ was revolutionary in how he played. Wings didn't know how to guard him. The best defender of his era was 6'3" Joe Dumars who was about as athletic as Raymond Felton.

Every wing in today's game has to be able to defend on the perimeter. They train to guard guys who play like MJ. Even more, they now have to guard the 3. What Harden is doing offensively is incredible. Sure there was more contact in MJ's day, but you couldn't touch MJ. You couldn't hit him the same way other guys were getting hit.

For a concrete example, look at Reggie Miller. He played in that era and torched teams. Harden is miles better at everything than Reggie. Every facet of his game is much better than Reggie's.

So yes, Harden's offense can easily be compared to MJ. I actually think it's better. Harden is hitting step back 3's over 6'8" defenders. MJ hit fade away 14 footers over guys like Hornacek, Ehlo, Dumars, etc.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I wouldn't say every aspect.
Reggie had 10 seasons when he shot over 40% from three. Harden has zero so far.

And ya mj was treated good by the officials but no where near as good as harden. Harden is treated better by the officials than anyone in NBA history and it isn't close.

I agree with your general point though. That harden is amazing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
fishonjazz said:
I wouldn't say every aspect.
Reggie had 10 seasons when he shot over 40% from three. Harden has zero so far.

And ya mj was treated good by the officials but no where near as good as harden. Harden is treated better by the officials than anyone in NBA history and it isn't close.

I agree with your general point though. That harden is amazing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I wonder how good Reggie would be if you guarded his backside?

Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
fishonjazz said:
I wouldn't say every aspect.
Reggie had 10 seasons when he shot over 40% from three. Harden has zero so far.

And ya mj was treated good by the officials but no where near as good as harden. Harden is treated better by the officials than anyone in NBA history and it isn't close.

I agree with your general point though. That harden is amazing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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TBF, MJs career high in FTA/game for a season (11.9) is higher than Harden’s (11.0) but I agree.
 
jope said:
TBF, MJs career high in FTA/game for a season (11.9) is higher than Harden’s (11.0) but I agree.
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I just remember a stat I saw a while back that took all the best treated and best players in NBA history. Guys like Karl Malone, Jordon, Kobe, LeBron, etc and they compared them to harden looking at free throw attempts in a ratio to field goals made. All the non harden players had thousands more field goals made than free throws attempted.
Harden had more free throws attempted than field goals made.
It was quite eye opening.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
And why quin is so concerned with stopping harden is beyond me. You not gonna stop anybody if your entire defensive scheme is centered around stoping the most unstoppable player in this league. Let Harden drop 70 or 80 points if he could, do not rotate/leave your defenders to help cover Harden. It's opening his passing lane and not gonna work. If we can limit everyone else to under 40 points we’d have a better chance of winning.
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
Please don't compare Harden to MJ. Because of the 3's? Because of the Triple doubles? Are you aware of the Watered down defense that the "today" NBA roots are build from? "As good as any guard in NBA history, including MJ". What the hell are you smoking? Your not even allowed to play defense in today's NBA. Harden wouldn't make it through the first 3 quarters getting elbows to his ribs driving the lane with the 90's defenders. How old are you?? It is so damn obvious that you are younger than 35, it's not even funny. What else is going to come out of your mouth? Your capable of saying anything at this point, the stupidest thing that someone could think has already been said by you. Is Enes Kanter as good as Moses Malone? Lebron would probably dance circles around Larry Bird in his prime according to you. Ben Simmons is only a year away from being the guy that your find worthy enough before you start buying underwear with his name stitched in the ***. Baaahaaaaaaaaa!!!! You have me dying right now. When your balls do decide to drop, remember that a vasectomy is the greatest gift that you can provide to the intelligence of man kind. But lets face the facts. Someone with your condition is going to infect the world with 5 or 6 little rascals that are just like you. Further contributing to the over abundant population affected by the Dunning Kruger effect.

Harden is definitely by far ever as great as MJ. Your so right.
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Old enough to have seen Bob Cousy play. I stand by what I say. People always romanticize the past. There were few players who could shoot like the players today. People like Bird, Freddy "downtown" Brown, and Dell Curry, to name a few. Harden is playing at an incredibly and historically high level right now. It would not surprise me if Houston beats the Warriors. They might've last year, had CP3 not gotten injured.
 
jope said:
TBF, MJs career high in FTA/game for a season (11.9) is higher than Harden’s (11.0) but I agree.
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Considering how many more possessions they use now, it is staggering to think that MJ had more free throw attempts per game than Harden gets now. Staggering.
 
LoPo said:
Considering how many more possessions they use now, it is staggering to think that MJ had more free throw attempts per game than Harden gets now. Staggering.
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It seems to me that Harden's offensive game is much more refined than MJ's, more in that sense like Bird. MJ was an athletic freak and this is what made him so great.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Old enough to have seen Bob Cousy play. I stand by what I say. People always romanticize the past. There were few players who could shoot like the players today. People like Bird, Freddy "downtown" Brown, and Dell Curry, to name a few. Harden is playing at an incredibly and historically high level right now. It would not surprise me if Houston beats the Warriors. They might've last year, had CP3 not gotten injured.
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Great post.

There have always been shooters, but the shooting off the dribble has changed the game. Guys like Bird, Ray Allen, Dell Curry, Korver, and so many more are pure shooters who hit shots when the offense led to an open enough look. The fact that Harden, Steph Curry and others don't need a set offense in order to shoot a slightly lower percentage than those guys is pretty amazing. When they get fouled shooting the 3, it doesn't get reflected in their shooting percentage either.

MJ changed the game because he could use a very rarely used "isolation" method of basketball to score buckets from the triple threat position. The stars now are doing the same for 3 pointers instead of 2 pointers. It's remarkable. Who in Jordan's era minus Scottie Pippen is actually bothering Harden for what he does now?
 
Sandman822 said:
Gameplan clearly hasn't worked, I would like to see Snyder try to take everyone that isn't named Harden out of the game when the series comes to Utah and say to Harden "we're making you a scorer only, drop 60+ to beat us because we're not letting you create good look after good look for your team anymore" instead of this garbage. He'll still get his teammates some great looks because he might just be the 2nd best SG of all time when it's all said and done but **** me it can't be worse than what we've seen so far.
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This is what I've been saying! When other teams stars have gone off on the Jazz but the Jazz shut everyone else down on their team, they have won! Yes, it was against lesser teams, but, I'd much rather the Jazz play that type of defense instead of whatever it is they have been trying to do.
 
The discouraging thing about this mess is that DL and QS had a whole year to address the Houston issue. Maybe they thought they had when we beat them earlier in the year. However, it looks like the Jazz are playing as if they have never seen what Houston is doing to them. DL is responsible for the roster and hopefully after this disaster is over he will realize that the Jazz need to make significant changes. Quin looks like he was unprepared because he just threw this new defense together after watching the Bucks. If this is true then for a whole year he had not prepared for the switching defense that Houston has used the last two playoff series.

As fans perhaps we overestimated how good the Jazz team is. We got excited because they made a late season run against a weak schedule while we ignored the reality that Utah was losing to potential playoff opponents earlier in the year. Jazz need major upgrades at PG, PF and even SF. I love Ingles but he is more of a bench player than a starter on a championship team. Yea i know his fan club is going to go off on me. I think the Jazz should have played Allen earlier in the season even if he sucked but it is obvious that he has improved. Chemistry is great but talent wins in the NBA. Jazz need to stop being so loyal and improve the team even if it hurts some players feelings.
 
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