Abortion Bills in the South

candrew said:

Disagree - they're dying out fast and this is their last gasp - in the United States the number of people that identify themselves as being atheist or having no religious affiliation has increased exponentially over the last 30 years - some studies go as high as 26%. According to 538 you're more likely to meet a young adult today who is atheist than an Evangelical Christian.

The Roe v. Wade debate will always exist on some level because, let's face it, there's money to be made from it by both sides. But for every generation this is becoming more and more of a non-issue. And if you think that's not possible, look at the gay marriage debate today as opposed to 15 years ago when there was an actual vote in Congress to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning it. How far do you think that initiative would go today?

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Rubashov said:

Well death is always something to hope for.

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fishonjazz said:

Ya thats pretty stupid.
Yay we caught a child molester and get to put him behind bars!
I mean the 12 year old and the baby are totally ****ed but who cares!

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The Thriller said:

Would that be a bad thing? We’ve now seen 3 years of the conservative religious right in action. I for one will be glad to see them gone. Are Bigots, hypocrites, and leeches like Farwell, Robertson, David Duke, Shapiro, and others really contributing positives to our society?

Good riddance to these false priests:

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Bulletproof said:

First, it's complicated.

I support abortion rights 100%. That part is not complicated.

But I feel that there is no solution, either full abortion rights with almost no restrictions or complete prohibition of abortion and nothing in-between, that is can possibly be "fair" to all involved.

For instance, if a woman wants an abortion but the father of the embryo wants to have that child the woman gets to end the pregnancy and deprive the father the opportunity to have a child. That is not fair.

Or, if a man does not want a child, is not prepared for being a father, has other life goals etc. but the woman wants to keep the pregnancy the man is liable (at the very least) for a portion the expenses of having and raising that child. He has absolutely no say in the matter. That's not fair.

So with full abortion rights a woman's rights her choices have total supremacy over the man's rights in the matter.

However, with total prohibition of abortion a woman has no say in her body being used to bear a child. While pregnancy lasts 9 months, it isn't as simple as that. It isn't over after 9 months even if the child is given up for adoption. I'm not going to try to attempt to list all of the consequences beyond just being pregnant, because there is no way I could do such a list justice. Needless to say, forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy is not fair. And on a scale of fairness, it is much much more not fair than the situations I listed above that pertain to men.

I specifically didn't talk about the fetus because I honestly do not think a fetus has any rights and I personally do not care if a pregnancy is carried to term or not as far as the fetus is concerned. The rights and concerns of the living people involved completely outweigh that of the fetus.

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firegirl said:

I agree with you on most all of your points. That's refreshing.

It is very complicated. I suppose, for me, it comes down to when life begins. Having children of my own, it's something I've thought a lot about. When I'm holding that newborn in my arms and looking at his face, I realize that he/she looked exactly like this for weeks now, and there's no way I would abort her now that she's in my arms. But, people do late term abortions all the time.

Obviously the mothers life comes first. I just wish we could stop late term abortions that were simply, "eh, I don't want this baby now." - I have no idea how many of those happen, but I'm sure that they do.


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The Thriller said:

You know the law sucks *** when Tomi sounds reasonable.

On the bright side, this might be the first time I’ve ever agreed with her on anything:

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silesian said:

the new law says that abortion is murder but does not make it illegal for the mother to abort a fetus. This seems indefensible. Docs go to jail. This is the same as saying the assassin goes to jail and the mob boss who hired him goes scot free.

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silesian said:

Being on Tomi’s side kinda weakens your argument, haha.

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The Thriller said:

Lol Tomi sucks

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The Thriller said:

What punishment does the male who impregnated the woman get? Sounds to me like he should slap some (more) skin in the game...

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The Thriller said:

Lol Tomi sucks

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Bulletproof said:

That sounds like fun.

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firegirl said:

But, people do late term abortions all the time.

Obviously the mothers life comes first. I just wish we could stop late term abortions that were simply, "eh, I don't want this baby now." - I have no idea how many of those happen, but I'm sure that they do.

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silesian said:

the new law says that abortion is murder but does not make it illegal for the mother to abort a fetus. This seems indefensible. Docs go to jail. This is the same as saying the assassin goes to jail and the mob boss who hired him goes scot free.

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Bulletproof said:

First, it's complicated.

I support abortion rights 100%. That part is not complicated.

But I feel that there is no solution, either full abortion rights with almost no restrictions or complete prohibition of abortion and nothing in-between, that is can possibly be "fair" to all involved.

For instance, if a woman wants an abortion but the father of the embryo wants to have that child the woman gets to end the pregnancy and deprive the father the opportunity to have a child. That is not fair.

Or, if a man does not want a child, is not prepared for being a father, has other life goals etc. but the woman wants to keep the pregnancy the man is liable (at the very least) for a portion the expenses of having and raising that child. He has absolutely no say in the matter. That's not fair.

So with full abortion rights a woman's rights her choices have total supremacy over the man's rights in the matter.

However, with total prohibition of abortion a woman has no say in her body being used to bear a child. While pregnancy lasts 9 months, it isn't as simple as that. It isn't over after 9 months even if the child is given up for adoption. I'm not going to try to attempt to list all of the consequences beyond just being pregnant, because there is no way I could do such a list justice. Needless to say, forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy is not fair. And on a scale of fairness, it is much much more not fair than the situations I listed above that pertain to men.

I specifically didn't talk about the fetus because I honestly do not think a fetus has any rights and I personally do not care if a pregnancy is carried to term or not as far as the fetus is concerned. The rights and concerns of the living people involved completely outweigh that of the fetus.

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The Thriller said:

This is one of those issues that I can’t find any middle ground with fellow “Americans” on.

I’m pro choice.

I’m not pro abortion. I’m pro life. But I’m pro choice. Women should choose. Government has no business being involved with this issue. Neither should anyone else here outside of the woman making this personal choice.

I know too much about history when:

1. Women didn’t have choice. Rapists were empowered, a black market for abortion for the rich and white was created, and women of color or of the lower classes suffered. Get rid of women’s rights and we’ll go back to a hellish time.

2. It’s 2019, let’s stop treating women as second class citizens. Government has no business being involved with this. I’d think my “conservative” brethren would agree. Right? Nothing screams “big Gubbamint” more than making medical decisions for people, right? Or does “big gubbamint” only apply when talking about health care to poor people and gun regulation?

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firegirl said:

I agree with you on most all of your points. That's refreshing.

It is very complicated. I suppose, for me, it comes down to when life begins. Having children of my own, it's something I've thought a lot about. When I'm holding that newborn in my arms and looking at his face, I realize that he/she looked exactly like this for weeks now, and there's no way I would abort her now that she's in my arms. But, people do late term abortions all the time.

Obviously the mothers life comes first. I just wish we could stop late term abortions that were simply, "eh, I don't want this baby now." - I have no idea how many of those happen, but I'm sure that they do.


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NPC D4617 said:

I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

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One Brow said:

Late-term abortions are very rare. In the United States, approximately 1.3% of abortions take place after the 21st week of pregnancy, and less than 1% of all abortions occur after 24 weeks.[4] Late-term abortions usually take place when the mother's health is at serious risk or when fatal conditions have been detected in the fetus.

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