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Abortion Bills in the South

firegirl said:
The reasons listed here are things I don't really care for.

On top of that, even though it's allegedly less than 1%, that still could mean thousands and thousands of babies that are killed. We can do better.
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From that under 1% (obviously a lot of overlap in these numbers), I can understand why you feel that way about the women in these categories

  • 0.24% of women took longer to decide whether to have an abortion
  • 0.08% of women had an abortion after a change in their relationship status
  • 0.06% of women chose to have an abortion because of a change in circumstances after becoming pregnant
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However, we still have:
  • 0.71% of women were unaware they were pregnant or misjudged gestation
  • 0.48% of women found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
  • 0.33% of women were afraid to tell their partner or parents
  • 0.08% of women were initially pressured not to have abortion
  • 0.06% of women were not properly educated on how timing affects abortion
  • 0.05% of women were unaware that abortion was available to them
  • 0.02% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
  • 0.11% Other
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If you really want to reduce abortions, the best way is to make it easier to be a mother.
 
NPC D4617 said:
I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.
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Giving someone a drug without their consent is assault, at the very least. Also, unlike the woman, the poisoner has no claim of bodily integrity nor of medical direction from a person who is maintaining their integrity, so fetal homicide seems appropriate as well.
 
One Brow said:
From that under 1% (obviously a lot of overlap in these numbers), I can understand why you feel that way about the women in these categories


However, we still have:

If you really want to reduce abortions, the best way is to make it easier to be a mother.
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I agree with you.

I don't want to decrease all abortions. Just extremely late term or partial birth ones.


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The Thriller said:
It’s not about unwanted pregnancies. It’s never been about life. It’s always been about controlling women.
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One of the reasons I typically refrain from commenting on the topic of abortion is that each side tends to misinterpret or flat out lie about the other sides position. There are countless people who have zero interest in controlling a woman's body and genuinely feel that the unborn fetus has rights that deserve to be considered in the discussion. The right does the same thing, characterizing pro-choice women as irresponsible sluts wanting to use abortion as a form of birth control.

As your cartoon pointed out, it's always surprised me that many religious conservatives seem so concerned with the welfare of an unborn fetus, but that compassion often seems to dwindle or outright stop once the child is born. By the same token, Liberals pride themselves in standing up for underprivileged and vulnerable, yet that compassion doesn't extend to the unborn child.

My point is that calling someone a "baby-killer" or accusing someone of wanting to "control women" does zero to actually forward the discussion.
 
NPC D4617 said:
I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.
Click to expand...

This is easy, it's a crime. I'm against late term abortions except in extreme situations like life of mother. The right to choose is not without limits.
 
NPC D4617 said:
I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.
Click to expand...

I answered your question, please answer mine.

Do you believe the following?
  • One microsecond before conception, you believe it is okay to terminate the egg and the sperm.
  • One microsecond after the sperm fertilizes the egg, terminating the pregnancy is morally equivalent to murdering a healthy 16 year old girl.

If your answer is "no" I dub you "pro choice"

If your answer is "yes" I credit you for an intellectually honest position.

If "yes" could you explain how this slight molecular rearrangement that happens in 2 microseconds aligns to your sense of morality

Thank you.
 
firegirl said:
I agree with you.

I donb't want to decrease all abortions. Just extremely late term or partial birth ones.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
Click to expand...

And I assume you do agree that we should eliminate all abortions by preventing unwanted pregnancies?
 
NPC D4617 said:
I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.
Click to expand...

Next hypothetical. the Government mandates that all 11 year old boys take a completely harmless pill that renders them sterile. The Government can give you a second harmless pill to immediately reverse the effects when you choose to start a family. After having the number of kids you want, you again take the first pill. Details are worked out so that the program eliminates all abortions.

Would you be pro life, in favor of the Government mandate, or would you be pro choice, allowing unborn babies to die when men choose to not take the pill?
 
silesian said:
And I assume you do agree that we should eliminate all abortions by preventing unwanted pregnancies?
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I will answer yes

However I still think there would be cases where the fetus is non viable and/or the mother is at risk of death from the delivery where abortion might make sense.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
silesian said:
Next hypothetical. the Government mandates that all 11 year old boys take a completely harmless pill that renders them sterile. The Government can give you a second harmless pill to immediately reverse the effects when you choose to start a family. After having the number of kids you want, you again take the first pill. Details are worked out so that the program eliminates all abortions.

Would you be pro life, in favor of the Government mandate, or would you be pro choice, allowing unborn babies to die when men choose to not take the pill?
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I would be in favor of the pill being mandated.

I would also be interested in looking at a situation where if a mother gets an abortion for a non life threatening type situation or non rape situation that they have to be sterilized. You don't want to be a mom? Fine then you don't have to be. Ever.
Or at the very least a law saying that you can only get one abortion.

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I don't think any person ever aspires to have an abortion. I think abortion should be legal in circumstances where the woman's health is at risk, or if doctors believe the woman can't safely carry the pregnancy. The debate ultimately comes down to the question of at what point during the pregnancy the unborn child has rights. There is some point in time between the conception and the delivery when the unborn child acquires the right to live. Obviously, once the child is born, it's illegal to kill the child. The question is simply how much earlier the child acquires rights.

I also think that the male parent should be given a few rights along with responsibilities to help raise the child. If the father's family is able to help raise the child, even if the mother is not, then this too should be preferable to aborting the child. If abortion is being considered, I don't think it should be the woman's decision alone, but other options should be given serious consideration.

The problem right now is that a very significant percentage of pregnancies are being aborted. In the early 80s, apparently over 30% of pregnancies were aborted. That number has declined, however it's still substantial. The majority aren't abortions due to health concerns, or because the woman was raped. They're unwanted pregnancies that are aborted for convenience.

The real problem is promiscuity, something that feminism and popular culture have encouraged now for 50 years.
 
Catchall said:
There is some point in time between the conception and the delivery when the unborn child acquires the right to live. Obviously, once the child is born, it's illegal to kill the child. The question is simply how much earlier the child acquires rights.
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At what points does the right of person A to live overrule the right of Person B to decide who can make use of person B's body? Does this only happen when A is a fetus and B is a woman?

Catchall said:
The real problem is promiscuity, something that feminism and popular culture have encouraged now for 50 years.
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Said without irony during a period of time when sexual activity is decreasing among young people, compared to earlier generations.
 
If you consider that rights begin at conception, I'm assuming that you are opposed to in vitro fertilization. Many fertilized eggs are not used and eventually destroyed.
 
JazzGal said:
If you consider that rights begin at conception, I'm assuming that you are opposed to in vitro fertilization. Many fertilized eggs are not used and eventually destroyed.
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Oh snap


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JazzGal said:
If you consider that rights begin at conception, I'm assuming that you are opposed to in vitro fertilization. Many fertilized eggs are not used and eventually destroyed.
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Every pro life family should dedicate their women to surrogate these babies and stop them from being killed!

I mean, if you truly think that this is murder, do you not have the moral obligation to stop this?

If you refuse to save these children, are you not accomplices?
 
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