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You're the GM this offseason. What do you do?

Handlogten's Heros said:
Why doesn't Lamb play more minutes. Seems like Kemba needed lots of help... really curious, not trying to dog the guy. I know Borrego was new and that Lamb wasn't a big favorite of the previous coach (name escapes me... dude in Orlando).

Hornets season goes south every year because their bigs are bad and once Zeller or Howard was hurt they were relying on Frank the Tank and Biyombo. Maybe Lamb running some offense with good shooting or bigs who set picks and have some gravity unlocks something for him.

I think he could be had for 12-15M a year. Middle tier guys generally come at a bargain or get overpaid... so $18-20M could end up being what it takes. 2s and 3s likely command a premium too, so who knows how crazy it gets.
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Yikes we're already talking about guys like Lamb as an option? Yuck
 
LoPo said:
If we waive Favors on the first day of the moratorium, that's not July 7th. Somebody clarify the rules for me, but wouldn't his 48 hour waiver process happen right when we do it? So only teams with the cap space on July 2nd or a trade exception large enough could pick him up.

Regardless of timing or that rule, I just refuse to believe that any NBA team would pick up Favors for $18 million expiring on the first day or two of free agency. Maybe they would do it a few weeks into free agency when they have failed, but I just don't see the Lakers making LeBron and their fanbase happy by picking up Favors for 50% of their 2019 summer cap space.

Once a team picks him up, they can't trade him as a large expiring until the deadline. He's not worth $18 million as an expiring.
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Dallas has a $21M trade exception so they could claim him. I believe teams could claim him, but I am not sure when the waiver claim process starts. I think it might actually delay the waiver wire process further... it is a moratorium after all.

If we waived him now a team could pick him up... like Dallas and waive him again if they don't find anyone by July 5th.
 
Guys that can't shoot, dribble (create) are finding they asses on the bench in the playoffs. If Rudy got played off the floor it is likely that Favs isn't the best solution to the issue... he does some different things, but isn't so different that it cures the issue. Even if we miss the big free agents I think it's a bad idea to guarantee his deal. I am not entertaining the fantasy world where we waive him and he comes back for a team friendly deal because while he knows it isn't a good fit he'd rather not move his family (even though I think his wife is in Georgia closer to family). The guy would know we wanted something better, we failed in getting something better, and he would likely be back in trade rumors.

I don't think his market dries up so much that he can't get full MLE money (4/40) or a 1+1 with a player option in a market where he can start and show everyone he's worth more. If his market did dry up doesn't that tell us something... if we were the highest bidder for his services even though we have a player entrenched at his best position.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Not substantially if we're hell-bent on clogging the lane.
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When we had a PG that could shoot Favors and Gobert played well together. The season with Hill the put up 110 offensive rating and 91 defensive rating in our second most used lineup of Hill, Hayward, Ingles, Favors, and Gobert. The year before our 2 most used lineups that had Neto and Mack as our starting PGs with Favors and Gobert we were +9 rating for those lineups. This year with Neto at PG those two played together well, albeit limited minutes. The offensive rating was 127. Same things when Mitchell started at PG with Favors and Gobert together. Although those are getting pretty low minutes.

The point is Gobert and Favors have always played well together when we have a PG that can shoot. If not they are terrible together.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Dallas has a $21M trade exception so they could claim him. I believe teams could claim him, but I am not sure when the waiver claim process starts. I think it might actually delay the waiver wire process further... it is a moratorium after all.

If we waived him now a team could pick him up... like Dallas and waive him again if they don't find anyone by July 5th.
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Dallas is really going to use all their cap space on Derrick Favors? I just don't see it.

But like I've said 100 times - I don't think we should pick up Derrick Favors at $18 million. If we waive him (which we should do in every scenario) and another team picks him up, then good for Favors. However, if we waive him with the intention of re-signing him for the long term, then we did our best to keep him long term.

Favors says he wants to be here. He says he wants to stay here. If we make that possible at 3 or 4 years making around $12 million, we have done really, really well by him. That's a really great contract for him and I believe better than anything he would get on the open market. Most teams who might want Favors don't want him for the long term.
 
Ron Mexico said:
When we had a PG that could shoot Favors and Gobert played well together. The season with Hill the put up 110 offensive rating and 91 defensive rating in our second most used lineup of Hill, Hayward, Ingles, Favors, and Gobert. The year before our 2 most used lineups that had Neto and Mack as our starting PGs with Favors and Gobert we were +9 rating for those lineups. This year with Neto at PG those two played together well, albeit limited minutes. The offensive rating was 127. Same things when Mitchell started at PG with Favors and Gobert together. Although those are getting pretty low minutes.

The point is Gobert and Favors have always played well together when we have a PG that can shoot. If not they are terrible together.
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Hope so. Not really buying it, though. Especially in the playoffs or against top-tier teams.
 
LoPo said:
Dallas is really going to use all their cap space on Derrick Favors? I just don't see it.

But like I've said 100 times - I don't think we should pick up Derrick Favors at $18 million. If we waive him (which we should do in every scenario) and another team picks him up, then good for Favors. However, if we waive him with the intention of re-signing him for the long term, then we did our best to keep him long term.

Favors says he wants to be here. He says he wants to stay here. If we make that possible at 3 or 4 years making around $12 million, we have done really, really well by him. That's a really great contract for him and I believe better than anything he would get on the open market. Most teams who might want Favors don't want him for the long term.
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If they get to July 5-6 they may not have better options... Lakers are the same. Both teams have done the 1 year placeholder overpay thing in the past... so who knows.

Favs said he wants his option picked up... cuz he wants that money. If 3-4 years around 12M is his highest offer then he'd likely come here... of course Dallas or another team could offer something similar and they'd get more value on that deal than we would... so again why are we the highest bidder in the room? and if we aren't why is Favs coming back. Hell if Atlanta doesn't draft a center they might want to put Favs alongside Collins... they could even pick up his waived contract... they have like $40M in space and likely don't want long term deals at this point unless they are attached to young guys.

Favs on a team friendly long term deal was an option last offseason... I think it's damn near a pipe dream this offseason.
 
Ron Mexico said:
When we had a PG that could shoot Favors and Gobert played well together. The season with Hill the put up 110 offensive rating and 91 defensive rating in our second most used lineup of Hill, Hayward, Ingles, Favors, and Gobert. The year before our 2 most used lineups that had Neto and Mack as our starting PGs with Favors and Gobert we were +9 rating for those lineups. This year with Neto at PG those two played together well, albeit limited minutes. The offensive rating was 127. Same things when Mitchell started at PG with Favors and Gobert together. Although those are getting pretty low minutes.

The point is Gobert and Favors have always played well together when we have a PG that can shoot. If not they are terrible together.
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So the deal is Favs and Gobert is something you can survive, but the lineup data isn't the only thing to look at... The Hill, Ingles, Hayward, Rudy, Favs lineup only played like 150 minutes likely towards the end of the year. I do agree that with a shooting playmaking pg, like George Hill that year, Rudy and Favs can work... but is it ideal... Diaw's lineup +/- was also pretty good with our mainstays.

You referenced DM at pg lineups... they work if Ingles is in there too, but they were against some pretty bad competition. The DM, Ingles, Royce, Favs, Rudy lineups were +11.5... really good... now sub in Crowder for Favs in the same lineup... it is +20.5... so completely elite.

IF you could get Favs for like 4/40 and you could get him to just play backup center minutes... then go ahead and keep him. We are worse (net rating) with Favs and Rudy together than ordinary players like Crowder... so you pay a Favors tax... Quin knows it and the guy comes off the bench when we get to the Rockets series.

So we allocate more resources than needed for a backup and hurt lineups that include our best players. He gives us a big boost with the bench units... can we get a bench big who gives us 75% of that for 50% (or lower) of the price?
 
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Is there any chance the Jazz can trade enough to get Conley without losing Favors? Outside of maybe Tobias Harris, I just don't see the Jazz getting any of the all-star level free agents this off-season. Rubio is gone. The Jazz fanbase is tired of not having reliable point guards. I know Conley's 32, but the Jazz need something and this wouldn't require a free-agency risk that if it's blown, we run out of options. If we lose Favors to get Conley though, I feel like that's just more of a lateral move and not a ton of improvement.

I honestly think the Jazz should trade Gobert for a player or assets that can be used to become a starting point guard or shooting guard (Donovan could be moved to PG), Favors is more than qualified to be a starting center, then available money can be used to get a starting caliber stretch 4.

I just don't see how the Jazz are able to fill the starting point guard hole while also needing to upgrade one of the starting forward positions this off-season without trading Gobert. The Jazz don't have a lot of free agency success (of course there are always firsts for everything). So if we look at really upgrading through trades, whats our best asset for a trade? I see so many Jazz fans saying that if the Jazz screw up and don't make a WCF appearance soon, then Gobert is going to bounce. Well if that's the case, maybe trading him for some nice stuff before he does that is what needs to be done.
 
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I think we'd get more out of giving Rudy Gay a 3/36 type of deal than we would if we gave Favs that money. Go give Zubac 6-8M a year to be a high-level backup if you really want to spend on center.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think we'd get more out of giving Rudy Gay a 3/36 type of deal than we would if we gave Favs that money. Go give Zubac 6-8M a year to be a high-level backup if you really want to spend on center.
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And everybody thought that Boston would be amazing this year because they took an Eastern Conference Finals team and added Kyrie Irving.

Chemistry actually means something. Sure, Favors is limited, but the guy is a major part of the identity of the team. We already acknowledge that we are letting Rubio, Thabo, and Udoh go. All of those guys are fantastic lockerroom guys. Korver is probably gone and he's a great lockerroom guy too. Now everybody just wants to bail on Favors.

It's not that easy to uproot half of the "good culture" guys on a roster and expect things to stay as good or even get better.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
So the deal is Favs and Gobert is something you can survive, but the lineup data isn't the only thing to look at... The Hill, Ingles, Hayward, Rudy, Favs lineup only played like 150 minutes likely towards the end of the year. I do agree that with a shooting playmaking pg, like George Hill that year, Rudy and Favs can work... but is it ideal... Diaw's lineup +/- was also pretty good with our mainstays.

You referenced DM at pg lineups... they work if Ingles is in there too, but they were against some pretty bad competition. The DM, Ingles, Royce, Favs, Rudy lineups were +11.5... really good... now sub in Crowder for Favs in the same lineup... it is +20.5... so completely elite.

IF you could get Favs for like 4/40 and you could get him to just play backup center minutes... then go ahead and keep him. We are worse (net rating) with Favs and Rudy together than ordinary players like Crowder... so you pay a Favors tax... Quin knows it and the guy comes off the bench when we get to the Rockets series.

So we allocate more resources than needed for a backup and hurt lineups that include our best players. He gives us a big boost with the bench units... can we get a bench big who gives us 75% of that for 50% (or lower) of the price?
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I think we have a step back if we replace favors with the people you are talking about. I only replace favors if we land a really good player.

It's crazy how much our own fans under appreciate Favors and his impact.

The Donovan lineups are too few of minutes to draw any real conclusion from.

The point is that any time they've played together with a shooting PG the team played very well. Ideally favors plays all the backup center minutes and some of the PF minutes. Personally I would rather upgrade Crowder than Favors. Favors was our best player in the playoffs and our 3rd best player on the team. Favors needs more minutes and more plays ran for him.

Priority for me is upgrading the PG spot or SG spot if you move Mitchell over. 2nd priority is tied between a wing upgrade and a PF upgrade. But a star player at any position besides center takes priority if you can land it.

The Jazz won't do it but I think our best move is to trade Gobert and start Favors. Favors is almost as good and is better in many situations like against the rockets and probably golden state. Plus Gobert could land us a much better player in a trade. But I know it won't happen.
 
Trade1stsfor1yearpgs said:
Is there any chance the Jazz can trade enough to get Conley without losing Favors? Outside of maybe Tobias Harris, I just don't see the Jazz getting any of the all-star level free agents this off-season. Rubio is gone. The Jazz fanbase is tired of not having reliable point guards. I know Conley's 32, but the Jazz need something and this wouldn't require a free-agency risk that if it's blown, we run out of options. If we lose Favors to get Conley though, I feel like that's just more of a lateral move and not a ton of improvement.

I honestly think the Jazz should trade Gobert for a player or assets that can be used to become a starting point guard or shooting guard (Donovan could be moved to PG), Favors is more than qualified to be a starting center, then available money can be used to get a starting caliber stretch 4.

I just don't see how the Jazz are able to fill the starting point guard hole while also needing to upgrade one of the starting forward positions this off-season without trading Gobert. The Jazz don't have a lot of free agency success (of course there are always firsts for everything). So if we look at really upgrading through trades, whats our best asset for a trade? I see so many Jazz fans saying that if the Jazz screw up and don't make a WCF appearance soon, then Gobert is going to bounce. Well if that's the case, maybe trading him for some nice stuff before he does that is what needs to be done.
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LOL
 
LoPo said:
And everybody thought that Boston would be amazing this year because they took an Eastern Conference Finals team and added Kyrie Irving.

Chemistry actually means something. Sure, Favors is limited, but the guy is a major part of the identity of the team. We already acknowledge that we are letting Rubio, Thabo, and Udoh go. All of those guys are fantastic lockerroom guys. Korver is probably gone and he's a great lockerroom guy too. Now everybody just wants to bail on Favors.

It's not that easy to uproot half of the "good culture" guys on a roster and expect things to stay as good or even get better.
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Their situation is completely unique... they added a former all star back to a team after young guys had success and had somewhat selfish dudes (like Marcus Morris) along with literally everyone looking to get paid or establish their value. So completely different. They also got trounced by a team that might win the title.

Portland let Ed Davis walk and he was close with Dame and a vet leader... they made it to the conference finals. Rockets let Ariza walk... they kicked our ***. Milwaukee turned over a good portion of their roster and are doing just fine... Toronto traded great dude Demar DeRozan for enigma Kawhi Leonard... they seem like they okay.

Favs has been great. I appreciate his approach... we can't give guys $18M because they are good culture dudes... they have to be worth $18M on the court and be good culture dudes.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Their situation is completely unique... they added a former all star back to a team after young guys had success and had somewhat selfish dudes (like Marcus Morris) along with literally everyone looking to get paid or establish their value. So completely different. They also got trounced by a team that might win the title.

Portland let Ed Davis walk and he was close with Dame and a vet leader... they made it to the conference finals. Rockets let Ariza walk... they kicked our ***. Milwaukee turned over a good portion of their roster and are doing just fine... Toronto traded great dude Demar DeRozan for enigma Kawhi Leonard... they seem like they okay.

Favs has been great. I appreciate his approach... we can't give guys $18M because they are good culture dudes... they have to be worth $18M on the court and be good culture dudes.
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I've already said it now 101 times - I wouldn't give Favors $18 million. I would waive and re-sign. If he gets picked up or decides to sign elsewhere, so be it. Waive Favors, go after big free agents, likely fail, bring back Favors at $12ish.

This whole Favors debate comes down to our ability to sign better players. If we can, let's do it. If we have the choice of Mirotic or Favors, just stick with Favors. That lateral move isn't worth it.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I think we have a step back if we replace favors with the people you are talking about. I only replace favors if we land a really good player.

It's crazy how much our own fans under appreciate Favors and his impact.

The Donovan lineups are too few of minutes to draw any real conclusion from.

The point is that any time they've played together with a shooting PG the team played very well. Ideally favors plays all the backup center minutes and some of the PF minutes. Personally I would rather upgrade Crowder than Favors. Favors was our best player in the playoffs and our 3rd best player on the team. Favors needs more minutes and more plays ran for him.

Priority for me is upgrading the PG spot or SG spot if you move Mitchell over. 2nd priority is tied between a wing upgrade and a PF upgrade. But a star player at any position besides center takes priority if you can land it.

The Jazz won't do it but I think our best move is to trade Gobert and start Favors. Favors is almost as good and is better in many situations like against the rockets and probably golden state. Plus Gobert could land us a much better player in a trade. But I know it won't happen.
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I like how you said we under appreciate Favors and in the same post think we should trade Gobert… who is our identity. I like Favs... he's the worst kind of redundant for us though... It will be easier to address our issues long and short term by using his cap allocation elsewhere.
 
LoPo said:
I've already said it now 101 times - I wouldn't give Favors $18 million. I would waive and re-sign. If he gets picked up or decides to sign elsewhere, so be it. Waive Favors, go after big free agents, likely fail, bring back Favors at $12ish.

This whole Favors debate comes down to our ability to sign better players. If we can, let's do it. If we have the choice of Mirotic or Favors, just stick with Favors. That lateral move isn't worth it.
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Wait... if he is so important why risk losing him for a measly $6M?

Also, the though we could waive him and get him back on a better deal is pretty silly imo. If that happens I'll eat crow, but my guess is he would have better or similar offers... anything that is similar that provides him opportunity to close games and he will leave. I don't even think his family is here now so Utah may be "fine" but he isn't married to it.
 
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