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Trump’s Dividing of America

Trump is Hitler?

Well, I know I never said that at all. I know I pointed out conditions that can exist within societies that can contribute to the rise to power of authoritarian nationalists.

I'll say this to anyone else following this thread, because I waste my time addressing you at all: Thriller, and myself, are speaking as long time students of history. That is the perspective we are advancing here. And, I forget who said this, maybe Mark Twain(?), to the effect "history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes".

I am just seeing the conditions within a mass democracy that can lead to the appearance of leaders able, and willing, to marshal the fears and anxieties of segments of their societies to their advantage. And I think that is what Trump did. It isn't my fault if it's possible to examine the past and notice that similar circumstances in earlier societies led to the appearance of a cynical authoritarian. I can't unlearn my education, as a lifelong student of Western history. What I can do is do my best to apply what I learned to simply offer a certain perspective, a point of view. If you don't learn from the mistakes of the past, yada, yada, yada.

I can only assume, at this point, that folks like @Heathme will ignore all this and simply state that the message is Trump=Hitler. He cannot grasp what is being said here.
 
Well, I know I never said that at all. I know I pointed out conditions that can exist within societies that can contribute to the rise to power of authoritarian nationalists.

I'll say this to anyone else following this thread, because I waste my time addressing you at all: Thriller, and myself, are speaking as long time students of history. That is the perspective we are advancing here. And, I forget who said this, maybe Mark Twain(?), to the effect "history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes".

I am just seeing the conditions within a mass democracy that can lead to the appearance of leaders able, and willing, to marshal the fears and anxieties of segments of their societies to their advantage. And I think that is what Trump did. It isn't my fault if it's possible to examine the past and notice that similar circumstances in earlier societies led to the appearance of a cynical authoritarian. I can't unlearn my education, as a lifelong student of Western history. What I can do is do my best to apply what I learned to simply offer a certain perspective, a point of view. If you don't learn from the mistakes of the past, yada, yada, yada.

I can only assume, at this point, that folks like @Heathme will ignore all this and simply state that the message is Trump=Hitler. He cannot grasp what is being said here.

Yep, I can grasp it. Fortunately for us we live in America with two other branches of government and checks and balances. If an actual authoritarian came into power he would get voted out or removed from office.

Would you guys give up on the ridiculous Hitler and Nazi comparisons? It is just so dumb. It is so disrespectful to those that actually suffered in Nazi Germany.
 
Yep, I can grasp it. Fortunately for us we live in America with two other branches of government and checks and balances. If an actual authoritarian came into power he would get voted out or removed from office.

Would you guys give up on the ridiculous Hitler and Nazi comparisons? It is just so dumb. It is so disrespectful to those that actually suffered in Nazi Germany.
Of course, this is assuming that the branch of government tasked with acting as a check on the executive is willing and able to provide it. Thus far congress has fallen pretty short on that account.
 
Yep, I can grasp it. Fortunately for us we live in America with two other branches of government and checks and balances. If an actual authoritarian came into power he would get voted out or removed from office.

Would you guys give up on the ridiculous Hitler and Nazi comparisons? It is just so dumb. It is so disrespectful to those that actually suffered in Nazi Germany.

Analyzing the past, especially world war II, is something society has been over many times. It's not arguable that there are traits and actions society is taking under his direction that are similar. And it seems to be getting closer, not further away, from the same path.
 
Of course, this is assuming that the branch of government tasked with acting as a check on the executive is willing and able to provide it. Thus far congress has fallen pretty short on that account.

What do you guys believe is so authoritarian about Pres. Trump?

Here is a simple list of the executive orders given by the last 4 presidents. That would probably be a good indicator of a president possibly abusing his powers, no? Please read his executive orders before you spout off that he's on pace to do 400 executive orders or something stupid like that. They are NOT the executive orders of an authoritarian.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/

# President Total Executive Orders
42 Bill Clinton 364
43 George W. Bush 291
44 Barack Obama 276
45 Donald Trump 117
 
https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/07/16/wapo-desperate-nation-cries-barack-obama/

"I would first note that I’ve been learning an incredible amount during Trump’s presidency about exactly what is or isn’t racist in the modern world, including things I’d never imagined. (Was anyone else unaware that the finger and thumb “okay” sign so many of us grew up using was a symbol of white supremacy or something?) In this case, the charge of racism is being applied to Trump’s tweets. We should note that “tweets” is plural because there were more than one.

I’ll be the first to say that the comments were definitely on the unpleasant side, but then again I’ve been following the President on social media for quite a while now and I suppose I just don’t notice it as much. But was it racist? If the question had simply been ‘why don’t you go back where you came from‘ one could probably make that argument. I say “probably” because both Italian and Irish immigrants (the latter being arguably among the whitest of white people) heard those same words ringing in their ears for a long time. So perhaps xenophobic would be a better choice than “racist,” but your mileage may vary. Telling someone to “go home” (when their perceived home is not in this country) is clearly a signal that you don’t belong here, aren’t wanted, etc. It’s not a nice thing to say.

But, of course, that wasn’t what the President tweeted. What he actually wrote was, ‘Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.’ That was still no bouquet of flowers, but if you’re going to be honest in your criticism it’s worth pointing out that suggesting someone “go back… then come back and show us…” implies a visit abroad, not an expulsion. At least that’s the interpretation of some of the President’s advisers and defenders. It was still rather barbed and confrontational, but that’s pretty much Trump 24/7. We’re all just trying to read his mind at this point, but the shortened versions of his tweets I’m seeing in the press are, at a minimum, not the full story. That’s not good coverage."
 
https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/07/16/wapo-desperate-nation-cries-barack-obama/

"I would first note that I’ve been learning an incredible amount during Trump’s presidency about exactly what is or isn’t racist in the modern world, including things I’d never imagined. (Was anyone else unaware that the finger and thumb “okay” sign so many of us grew up using was a symbol of white supremacy or something?) In this case, the charge of racism is being applied to Trump’s tweets. We should note that “tweets” is plural because there were more than one.

I’ll be the first to say that the comments were definitely on the unpleasant side, but then again I’ve been following the President on social media for quite a while now and I suppose I just don’t notice it as much. But was it racist? If the question had simply been ‘why don’t you go back where you came from‘ one could probably make that argument. I say “probably” because both Italian and Irish immigrants (the latter being arguably among the whitest of white people) heard those same words ringing in their ears for a long time. So perhaps xenophobic would be a better choice than “racist,” but your mileage may vary. Telling someone to “go home” (when their perceived home is not in this country) is clearly a signal that you don’t belong here, aren’t wanted, etc. It’s not a nice thing to say.

But, of course, that wasn’t what the President tweeted. What he actually wrote was, ‘Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.’ That was still no bouquet of flowers, but if you’re going to be honest in your criticism it’s worth pointing out that suggesting someone “go back… then come back and show us…” implies a visit abroad, not an expulsion. At least that’s the interpretation of some of the President’s advisers and defenders. It was still rather barbed and confrontational, but that’s pretty much Trump 24/7. We’re all just trying to read his mind at this point, but the shortened versions of his tweets I’m seeing in the press are, at a minimum, not the full story. That’s not good coverage."
What's missing in that "analysis" is of course that the women targeted in the tweets were all born in America except for one, they just happen to not be white.

Telling minorities (again most of them born here) to "go back where they came from" and then describing their countries of origin as "totally broken and crime infested" is obviously racist, regardless of whatever weak defense the aptly named hot air tries to mount.
 
https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2019/07/16/wapo-desperate-nation-cries-barack-obama/

"I would first note that I’ve been learning an incredible amount during Trump’s presidency about exactly what is or isn’t racist in the modern world, including things I’d never imagined. (Was anyone else unaware that the finger and thumb “okay” sign so many of us grew up using was a symbol of white supremacy or something?) In this case, the charge of racism is being applied to Trump’s tweets. We should note that “tweets” is plural because there were more than one.

I’ll be the first to say that the comments were definitely on the unpleasant side, but then again I’ve been following the President on social media for quite a while now and I suppose I just don’t notice it as much. But was it racist? If the question had simply been ‘why don’t you go back where you came from‘ one could probably make that argument. I say “probably” because both Italian and Irish immigrants (the latter being arguably among the whitest of white people) heard those same words ringing in their ears for a long time. So perhaps xenophobic would be a better choice than “racist,” but your mileage may vary. Telling someone to “go home” (when their perceived home is not in this country) is clearly a signal that you don’t belong here, aren’t wanted, etc. It’s not a nice thing to say.

But, of course, that wasn’t what the President tweeted. What he actually wrote was, ‘Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.’ That was still no bouquet of flowers, but if you’re going to be honest in your criticism it’s worth pointing out that suggesting someone “go back… then come back and show us…” implies a visit abroad, not an expulsion. At least that’s the interpretation of some of the President’s advisers and defenders. It was still rather barbed and confrontational, but that’s pretty much Trump 24/7. We’re all just trying to read his mind at this point, but the shortened versions of his tweets I’m seeing in the press are, at a minimum, not the full story. That’s not good coverage."
Posting the whole thing he tweeted doesn't make it better. In fact, it makes it worse than the summary "go back where you came from."

How in the **** would three of those women go back to places they actually don't come from?

And being critical of the U.S. on specific issues is exactly what all of our legislators should be doing. How do we make this nation better if we're not identifying the things we hope to improve? The whole "love it or leave it" thing is pure garbage.

Those women don't hate America, they want to improve America. That's love.
 
What if they were all foreign born? Would that make their concerns any less legitimate? Would it make them a “lesser congresswoman?” Would it make them “less American?”

To me this reminds me of the xenophobic attacks that the right launched against Obama claiming that he was Muslim. And so what if he was? Would that make him a lesser president? Does the electoral college only work for Christian presidents? How about Jewish presidents? Buddhists presidents?

The sooner we all recognize Trump’s racist attacks, the better.

It really doesn’t matter where these women were born.

They pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and rose in their communities to become successful representatives of their House Districts. They are the fulfillment of the American dream. Shouldn’t conservatives be celebrating them?

They’re not rapists (that’s Trump, Roy Moore, Tim Hastert, Epstein, David Folley, etc)
 
Yep, I can grasp it. Fortunately for us we live in America with two other branches of government and checks and balances. If an actual authoritarian came into power he would get voted out or removed from office.

Would you guys give up on the ridiculous Hitler and Nazi comparisons? It is just so dumb. It is so disrespectful to those that actually suffered in Nazi Germany.

Conservatives in the Reichstag and more recently, the Duma and Grand National Assembly would’ve agreed with you too. How’d that work out?

The problem with your thinking is that you’re assuming that the party that controls the senate and is being enriched by the authoritarian would put partisanship aside and vote against their own party’s most prominent leader and side with the opposing party. If you think that Mitch and the boys would ever do that, then I have cheap property in Wyoming to sell ya.
 
What do you guys believe is so authoritarian about Pres. Trump?

Here is a simple list of the executive orders given by the last 4 presidents. That would probably be a good indicator of a president possibly abusing his powers, no? Please read his executive orders before you spout off that he's on pace to do 400 executive orders or something stupid like that. They are NOT the executive orders of an authoritarian.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/

# President Total Executive Orders
42 Bill Clinton 364
43 George W. Bush 291
44 Barack Obama 276
45 Donald Trump 117

Well he’s certainly on pace to blow Obama and W away.
 
Posting the whole thing he tweeted doesn't make it better. In fact, it makes it worse than the summary "go back where you came from."

How in the **** would three of those women go back to places they actually don't come from?

And being critical of the U.S. on specific issues is exactly what all of our legislators should be doing. How do we make this nation better if we're not identifying the things we hope to improve? The whole "love it or leave it" thing is pure garbage.

Those women don't hate America, they want to improve America. That's love.

Great post.

Also, are conservatives really so blind to their own hypocrisy? They’re freaking out over criticism about our own country? Who bitched nonstop for 2 years about how the country had gone all to hell and needed to be “made great again?” Who bitches about the country every morning while taking a dump? “The Dems! Angry Women! The fake news! The NY Times! The elitists! The college professors! The FBI! The CIA! The generals! The big tech firms! The deep state! Bla Bla Bla!

The real issue isn’t bitching about the country. The issue is WHO can bitch about the country. A black female to Trump, cannot criticize the country.

Racism 101. We’ve seen This before. remember lebron? “Shut up and dribble!”
 
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