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Trump’s Dividing of America

You all look as this as one sided. Pull your heads out. The things those women have said are just as gross and unacceptable.
 
reignman40 said:
You all look as this as one sided. Pull your heads out. The things those women have said are just as gross and unacceptable.
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I certainly disagree with some of the things they've said. I don’t remember it being discussed at length her. Such as Oman’s Jews tweets.
 
The Thriller said:
A higher standard than this?

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Just watching the man speak, even with the sound muted so you cant tell what is being said, you can just tell he is a butthole and probably saying something to hurt, demean, insult etc. how can anyone who isnt a butthole like this *************?


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fishonjazz said:
Maybe the president should be held to a higher standard? Like the highest standard?

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It's quite funny, but sad. This is the sort of thing the Republicans were saying during the Clinton era. Now that the Republicans have their own creep in office they don't care about these sorts of standards either. And if the Dems happen to find a winning candidate whose behavior is poor and whose closets are full of skeletons I'm not going to be one bit surprised when they are once again willing to justify looking the other way. I expect them to do so while lecturing the country that this sort of stuff doesn't matter, exactly like they did last time.

The sad truth is that if you want your policies enacted you are almost certainly going to have to live with some things that you aren't crazy about, especially because only a sick narcissist is ever likely to make it to the presidency. The system practically ensures that the good people find better ways to serve than by going through what is probably the worst job interview process in the history of the world.
 
Joe talking about **** that happened in the mid-90s like the world hasn't changed since then...

Al Franken. That's all I'm gonna say.
 
Gameface said:
Joe talking about **** that happened in the mid-90s like the world hasn't changed since then...

Al Franken. That's all I'm gonna say.
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LOL. GF was defending the actions of the Clintons as recently as 2016. It should be obvious to anyone that Bill Clinton's behavior was boorish. Those who aligned with his political ideologies simply did not care.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
LOL. GF was defending the actions of the Clintons as recently as 2016. It should be obvious to anyone that Bill Clinton's behavior was boorish. Those who aligned with his political ideologies simply did not care.
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I wanted him to resign after he lied to the American people.

Preferring Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and making arguments in her favor in the context of the Presidential campaign does not mean I support "the Clintons" wholesale. Going into the 2016 campaign I very much wanted other options. But when it came down to Hillary or Trump I made the correct decision and picked Hillary. There's no way I would ever apologize for that, or for trying to convince as many other people as possible to make the same decision.

I know Joe isn't a fan of complicated, nuanced arguments, so to him I said positive things about Hillary once, so I am her unquestioning faithful servant in all things, and apparently that also applies to Bill Clinton, a person I voted against in Clinton vs Dole. I voted against Clinton because I believed he disqualified himself to be my President by directly answering a question with a lie, a lie to the people he governed. I was a teenager at the time and my opinion then is the same as it is now, if you look into that camera and make a direct statement to the American people, and you're lying, specifically lying to cover up your own misdeeds, I don't consider you an acceptable person to be my President.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
It should be obvious to anyone that Bill Clinton's behavior was boorish. Those who aligned with his political ideologies simply did not care.
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GF has had many many posts bashing bill clinton. Never once has he said he was ok with Bill or liked bill or thought he was a good president. He pretty much hates bill clinton. You kinda swung and missed big time on this one.

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Gameface said:
I wanted him to resign after he lied to the American people.

Preferring Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and making arguments in her favor in the context of the Presidential campaign does not mean I support "the Clintons" wholesale. Going into the 2016 campaign I very much wanted other options. But when it came down to Hillary or Trump I made the correct decision and picked Hillary. There's no way I would ever apologize for that, or for trying to convince as many other people as possible to make the same decision.

I know Joe isn't a fan of complicated, nuanced arguments, so to him I said positive things about Hillary once, so I am her unquestioning faithful servant in all things, and apparently that also applies to Bill Clinton, a person I voted against in Clinton vs Dole. I voted against Clinton because I believed he disqualified himself to be my President by directly answering a question with a lie, a lie to the people he governed. I was a teenager at the time and my opinion then is the same as it is now, if you look into that camera and make a direct statement to the American people, and you're lying, specifically lying to cover up your own misdeeds, I don't consider you an acceptable person to be my President.
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Really? I distinctly remember you saying that it didn't matter that Hillary Clinton disparaged and intimidated multiple women who made credible accusations against Bill. You said that Bill's sex life was a private and irrelevant matter. When a true hero of the left (not that embarassment to everyone Al Franken) finds themselves in real trouble as a result of past decisions I have no doubt that a large percentage of these people who are currently claiming that they hold the moral high ground will find some loophole that they will claim allows them to make an exception in order to support a politician that they believe they can't afford to lose. I've seen it happen too many times to count at this point. I'm certain I will see it happen many more times in the future.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Really? I distinctly remember you saying that it didn't matter that Hillary Clinton disparaged and intimidated multiple women who made credible accusations against Bill. You said that Bill's sex life was a private and irrelevant matter. When a true hero of the left (not that embarassment to everyone Al Franken) finds themselves in real trouble as a result of past decisions I have no doubt that a large percentage of these people who are currently claiming that they hold the moral high ground will find some loophole that they will claim allows them to make an exception in order to support a politician that they believe they can't afford to lose. I've seen it happen too many times to count at this point. I'm certain I will see it happen many more times in the future.
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Al Franken was actually a very popular politician on the left, with a number of important committee assignments, and a lot of people (myself included) had hopes he would run for higher office. But, that doesn't fit this little narrative you've constructed.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Really? I distinctly remember you saying that it didn't matter that Hillary Clinton disparaged and intimidated multiple women who made credible accusations against Bill. You said that Bill's sex life was a private and irrelevant matter. When a true hero of the left (not that embarassment to everyone Al Franken) finds themselves in real trouble as a result of past decisions I have no doubt that a large percentage of these people who are currently claiming that they hold the moral high ground will find some loophole that they will claim allows them to make an exception in order to support a politician that they believe they can't afford to lose. I've seen it happen too many times to count at this point. I'm certain I will see it happen many more times in the future.
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My argument was a little more nuanced, so I don't think you understood.

I remember saying (feel free to find old posts and prove me wrong, I've said a lot of **** on jazzfanz and can't recall most of it) that WHEN IT WAS IN THE NEWS, WHEN I WAS A ****ING 15 YEAR OLD, I didn't think about it much and it wasn't a big deal to me at the time.

Go find the posts.
 
Gameface said:
My argument was a little more nuanced, so I don't think you understood.

I remember saying (feel free to find old posts and prove me wrong, I've said a lot of **** on jazzfanz and can't recall most of it) that WHEN IT WAS IN THE NEWS, WHEN I WAS A ****ING 15 YEAR OLD, I didn't think about it much and it wasn't a big deal to me at the time.

Go find the posts.
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No thanks. I'll take you at your word, especially because I have much better things to do than sift through millions of posts only to have you claim that it no longer matters even if I do find one that says exactly what I believe it did. I assume I got the part about Hillary right.

My point in this conversation is that the electorate, regardless of party, will forgive all sorts of warts in a candidate if they believe that candidates agenda aligns with their most important goals. I'll bet that the future will prove me right in that regard. I hope that you exhibit the moral clarity to be the exception to the rule.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
No thanks. I'll take you at your word, especially because I have much better things to do than sift through millions of posts only to have you claim that it no longer matters even if I do find one that says exactly what I believe it did. I assume I got the part about Hillary right.

My point in this conversation is that the electorate, regardless of party, will forgive all sorts of warts in a candidate if they believe that candidates agenda aligns with their most important goals. I'll bet that the future will prove me right in that regard. I hope that you exhibit the moral clarity to be the exception to the rule.
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I have been that exception my entire life. I believe in principles over party like 1,000,000/1
 
I don’t understand how GF’s views of Clinton make you feel better about Trump. I mean, it doesn’t affect how I view Trump. I don’t need his opinion of beets to tell me they’re disgusting. I think GF has been pretty damn clear and reasonable about Clinton. But what if he had been a Clinton cheerleader? So what? How is that relevant to Trump?

Some of you act as if this is a game. “Well you got to cheat so now I get to cheat!” How old are you?

Why should Clinton’s presidency and how Democrats treated him have any relevance on trump’s presidency and how republicans treat him?

Do you have values? Yes or No
Is Trump violating those values? Yes or No

If the answer is Yes to both questions, then he should be held accountable.

I would respect some of you Trumpers more if instead of bringing up Clinton every time you wanted to defend Trump, that you just admitted that you have no values and consequently have no problem with trump’s behavior. Own it.
 
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The Thriller said:
I don’t understand how GF’s views of Clinton make you feel better about Trump. I mean, it doesn’t affect how I view Trump. I think GF has been pretty damn clear and reasonable about Clinton. But what if he had been a Clinton cheerleader? So what? How is that relevant to Trump?

Some of you act as if this is a game. “Well you got to cheat so now I get to cheat!” How old are you?

Why should Clinton’s presidency and how Democrats treated him have any relevance on trump’s presidency and how republicans treat him?

Do you have values? Yes or No
Is Trump violating those values? Yes or No

If the answer is Yes to both questions, then he should be held accountable.

I would respect some of you Trumpers more if instead of bringing up Clinton every time you wanted to defend Trump, that you just admitted that you have no values and consequently have no problem with trump’s behavior. Own it.
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Yes, we know Trump has some very rough edges, and no we don't like everything he says. So we are not the blind Hitler followers as you call us. But for you to try to bury what went on with Hillary is beyond stupid. You think you write the her exoneration letter month before you interview her. You against your own FBI attorney counsel remove the wording that would get her arrested. You think you give immunity to her assistance without getting anything back from them. You think it is OK to have her assistance sit in the room with her while she is being interviewed. Yeah, if I was a democrat I would say don't bring up Killary when we discuss Trump to.
 
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No matter how many times Trump supporters play the "whatabout" game, no matter how many times they fall back on talking about Hillary, or even travel back in time to Bill in the 90's, the fact remains that we are living during the presidency of Donald Trump.

I just posted a clip of Trump's description of what occurred in the "send her back" rally. Do Trump supporters notice any deviation between his description of what happened, and clips of the actual moment in the rally during the "send her back" chant? Do the two things match?

I don't think they do. I think I know the reason. Trump creates reality on the fly. Whatever he says in the present here and now supersedes what the evidence demonstrates actually happened in the past. Once one is living in the Post Truth era that Trump finds so convenient as a way to deny reality, then anything Trump says becomes the Truth. His alternative reality overturns all evidence pointing to the fact that his "Truth" is actually fiction.

So I assume Trump supporters are fine with this "fluctuation of the truth" approach to how we describe reality. This is the new normal. We must never believe our eyes if Trump's truth overrides our eyes. Trump trumps reality. Oh yeah, this is normal, lol....
 
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