2019 Annual Jazzfanz AllTime NBA Draft - Round 2, Match 1 - Thee Jazz Fan vs tfivas
- Thread starter gandalfe
- Start date
I did not mention it, that doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. But I'll still take Steph for that one season with that as a factor. How much Steph did on offense and opened the court up was spectacular. I don't think Hakeem has nearly the same pull with today's rules and style. His defense was great. Centers defense seems to have more of an impact then PGs. So it is more necessary for a team to have a good defense from your center than point guard.
Team rotations and style has largely slowed the role of a big man going to work down low.
If we are going to compare defense though Lillard might be one of the worst defenders at PG.
checkbookdoc
Well-Known Member
This would have been much easier if Thee had a lock down guard defender. For example, if he had taken Jrue Holiday instead of Kevin Johnson then the team would feel more rounded. Johnson just seems redundant with Dame, Pistol, and Petrovic.
I don’t understand how or why you are penalizing Hakeem’s defensive magnitude on the grounds that he’s supposed to be good at it. That is precisely why it means so much that he is easily one of the five greatest defensive players ever.
Hakeem and Steph are in the same rarified air as scorers, but one player is a liability at the other half of basketball and the other one is one of - if not THE - greatest ever.
As entire players and at their peaks, it is not even close.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
You can put Hakeem anywhere on the court and make a difference. He was a great passer and dominant down low. His mid range game was as good as it gets
Drazen was a very capable defender. And Marion could guard 4 positions pretty damn good.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Let’s not forget that there is no way on gods green earth that Dirk can guard Giannis. T’s front court will be destroyed by mine, and where T has a Curry, I counter with a pistol, who played a little like steph. Pistol was constantly pulling up for 25-30 ft 2’s all the time. He was a great shooter in any generation, just think of what he would’ve done had there been a 3 point line. He’s probably the most talented ball handler the nba ever saw and was every bit the gun slinger Curry is.
I am not penalizing him for it. I give him a lot of credit for it. He was a great defender. He was great at offense in his era.
I dont put Hakeem in the same rarified air as scorers as Steph in their best seasons. Steph was well ahead in that area.
I think with todays rules and style he is not quite as good. Same goes with Steph if he played then. But I am basing this on the current NBA rules and knowledge which plays into style. I also give him credit for being one of the greatest ever if you take his career. If you pick one single season, I am taking Curry's. He had a greater impact to his team and winning.
Hakeem's best season was 92-93, Currys was 15-16. Curry was much better at TS% by 10%! That is huge. Curry had a better PER, TS%, WS, VORP, Obviously much better assist %, almost equal turnover % which is crazy for a guard vs center, a higher BPM. Curry's Offensive BPM was 12.4 vs his 3. Yes, Hakeem was a bigger impact on defense but combined with his offense it still isnt on the level of Steph's best season. Curry shot 45% from 3 on 11 shots a game. A lot of those were incredibly hard shots with defenses all over him and being double and even triple teamed at times. Curry was +22 net rating. Hakeem had a better defensive rating but still his net rating was +18.
https://www.basketball-reference.co...uwon&y2=1993&player_id2=olajuha01&idx=players
I agree.
checkbookdoc
Well-Known Member
I didn't get to see much of Petrovic, I just know he has a reputation as a poor defender and this seems to be consistent with his defensive stats. As for Marion, he was a good defender, but not exactly who you want on a fast PG with tight handles and a deadly outside shot that he can get off in the blink of an eye (i.e., Curry). Don't get me wrong, I still voted for you, but PG defense is a soft spot on your team.
Steph had the 4th best Box Plus/Minus of all time. Only Lebron, Jordan, and Westbrook have done better.
Steph had the 3rd best in NBA history for TS% for a season in the NBA. The players in front of him took 6 shots per game. Steph took 20.
Steph is the only player to attempt that many shots per game and have a TS% above 67%
https://www.basketball-reference.co...=fga_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=20&order_by=ts_pct
Steph had the 8th best VORP season of any player ever.
Steph had the 4th best PER season of any player ever. The only ones ahead of him are Jordan, Lebron, and Wilt.
Steph had the 3rd best in NBA history for TS% for a season in the NBA. The players in front of him took 6 shots per game. Steph took 20.
Steph is the only player to attempt that many shots per game and have a TS% above 67%
https://www.basketball-reference.co...=fga_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=20&order_by=ts_pct
Steph had the 8th best VORP season of any player ever.
Steph had the 4th best PER season of any player ever. The only ones ahead of him are Jordan, Lebron, and Wilt.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
This is the era of analytics because people don’t want to take the time to watch the games. Had guys like Hakeem or Pistol played today, they would’ve been coached geared around the same analytics. Point is though I have three absolutely dominant players. T just has Curry.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
No one can say Hakeem is easily one of the best five defensive players ever.
Nah, analytics just helps prove my point. I've seen both players play.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Your the guy that said Stockton wasn’t an impact player.
Lol, no. That is how you took it. I said he was a great player but Malone was the bigger impact and more important to the Jazz and their success. My quote you got upset about was the Stockton was a big factor but Malone was who dominated for us, especially when we made our finals run.
You are the one who thinks Malone held Stockton back from being even better, which is hilarious. But you are incapable of being reasonable. Your opinions on players are purely emotional.
You also got upset that I said Stockton was a top 25 all time player. You think he is a top 10 best player of all time, which is too high for him.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Putting words in both our mouths now I see.
Yes, I looked up what was said first to confirm what I remembered.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Of course you can’t bother to provide a link? If I had found it, I share if I’m right, but you’re not so...