El Paso Shooting

Stoked said:

Jesus, he can’t believe this can he? Like even he has to know how full of **** he is. Right?

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He probably does. Just like when he looks in the mirror and believes young women find him attractive and sexy. Just like he actually believes he knows more about health care, climate science, economics, etc. than those who actually study and do them for a living. He's a malignant narcissist and his delusions are his reality.

Red said:

There is no bigger megaphone then the one wielded by a president. And, in Trump's case, that megaphone has been in the form of tweets, more then any president before him. I remember suggesting, that if he were elected, he would govern mostly via Twitter and rallies. Hasn't quite turned out that way, executive orders have been prevalent, but Twitter and rallies have seen to it that the focus of the media has been on Trump, and to a saturated degree. But that suits him fine. (I'd love to see a week go by where the media ignores every tweet, and refuses to cover his rallies. Too bad, he snares them every time).

But do his hateful tweets and divisive rally speeches equate to an increase in hate crimes? I believe a president's words matter. If a president is scapegoating minorities with his words, then the very reach of his words, via social media, via live rallies attended by thousands, and sound bites of those rallies and tweets provided by the media, is huge. Far greater then any private citizen. Filling those tweets and rallies with hate, scapegoating, and "otherizing" Hispanics, at the very least, renders approval to those who feel the same way. It's wrong. Stop it. Don't need a direct link between Trump and El Paso. Just stop it.

But, FWIW, and both these studies must have flaws.

Do Trump tweets spur hate crimes?:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-trump-tweets-spur-hate-crimes1/

The actual study, PDF file at link:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3149103

And this study has come up on cable networks in recent days: hate crimes up 226% in counties that held Trump rallies during 2016 campaign:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...s-rose-by-226-percent-in-counties-where-trump

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I do think we ought to pump the brakes a bit claiming straight line causality from Trump's rhetoric to actions. Yeah, there may be 'stochastic terrorism' happening, but this is an empirical question, and the truth is likely not as simple as all that.

Then he said "I hope everyone has a nice day" signaling to all the racists out there to mobilize, taking the cue from the word "everyone", which a former white supremacist turned spiritual guru and msnbc contributor said means specifically to use shaving cream and silly string and/or toilet paper on the lawns of any poc, to show them that the are not welcome. **** dog whistles! Where's congress? When are they going to take up the bill on dog whistle control?

Spaniard said:

Then he said "I hope everyone has a nice day" signaling to all the racists out there to mobilize, taking the cue from the word "everyone", which a former white supremacist turned spiritual guru and msnbc contributor said means specifically to use shaving cream and silly string and/or toilet paper on the lawns of any poc, to show them that the are not welcome. **** dog whistles! Where's congress? When are they going to take up the bill on dog whistle control?

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eh?

"It feels like being hunted". Latinos across the United States in fear after El Paso massacre:

https://news.google.com/articles/CA...AowjuuKAzCWrzwwloEY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

But Tucker Carlson would have us believe otherwise I guess....

jimmy eat jazz said:

I do think we ought to pump the brakes a bit claiming straight line causality from Trump's rhetoric to actions. Yeah, there may be 'stochastic terrorism' happening, but this is an empirical question, and the truth is likely not as simple as all that.

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Yes, this is why I phrased it "Filling those tweets and rallies with hate, scapegoating, and "otherizing" Hispanics, at the very least, renders approval to those who feel the same way", and did not draw a straight line causality. i.e., it lets those Americans who already felt that way feel that their president feels that way too. At the same time, the El Paso shooter would not have said "the fake news" will blame Trump, unless he knew how similar his phrasing was to that of the president. I mean, I can picture him saying "I sound like Trump, I better clarify I felt this way long before Trump arrived on the scene".

Red said:

"It feels like being hunted". Latinos across the United States in fear after El Paso massacre:

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGGOsmwl7x9VoayH8sPekdkqFwgEKg8IACoHCAowjuuKAzCWrzwwloEY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

But Tucker Carlson would have us believe otherwise I guess....

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Has there been any other specific mass shooting targeting Latinos specifically?

Also, this isn’t limited to just Latinos. See the cnn article I posted. Everyone is scared and feeling targeted.

Does it feel like something has shifted to anyone else?

That critical mass has been reached for a larger portion of America suddenly?

Also these “domestic” terrorists are doing something the “Islamic” terrorists were unable to. Making average Americans fearful in daily life. Wary of sending kids to school, of shopping, going to work, to a concert...

Red said:

Holding court....

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This issue for me isn’t him anymore. He’s human filth with a severe personality disorder.

The issue for me are the millions of racist deplorables who would sacrifice their firstborn to prolong “Great Leader’s” life by seconds and those like Hugh Hewitt, Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, Lindsay Graham, Ben Sasse, and Mitt Romney who will now spend the next several days justifying Trump’s rhetoric. They’ll now try and convince the rest of us that trump really is trying to bring us together! It’s really the Democrats, the media, minorities, those for assault weapons bans and background checks, and the college educated who are dividing America.

How is a democracy supposed to function when 35 percent of the nation’s populace refuses to live in reality? How is our American democracy supposed to function when institutions like the senate and electoral college empower that 35 percent over the 65 percent? Sadly, the senate, Supreme Court, and executive branch are controlled by the dumbest and least educated.

How are we supposed to get anything done when Cleutus, big truck driver MAGA supporter from rural Wyoming who receives regular updates from Q, who has never met an African American and thinks 9/11 was god’s punishment for gay marriage, is scared to death of Spanish speakers, and believes a machine gun is an appropriate response to any dispute, has a vote that is 22 times more powerful than Dr John Williams, African American Stanford graduate who lives in the Bay Area, served abroad in Haiti, and listens to NPR and watches the BBC?

Theres no reasoning with these deplorables:

The Thriller said:

How are we supposed to get anything done when Cleutus, big truck driver MAGA supporter from rural Wyoming who receives regular updates from Q, who has never met an African American and thinks 9/11 was god’s punishment for gay marriage, is scared to death of Spanish speakers, and believes a machine gun is an appropriate response to any dispute, has a vote that is 22 times more powerful than Dr John Williams, African American Stanford graduate who lives in the Bay Area, served abroad in Haiti, and listens to NPR and watches the BBC?

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Lol - this statement is perfectly ok. Carry on hypocrites.

Spaniard said:

Lol - this statement is perfectly ok. Carry on hypocrites.

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Trumpers must be publicly called out and shamed.

But you know, Dayton and BLM and both sides and mental health and stuff.

Thoughts and prayers!

I thought you were against hate

Spaniard said:

I thought you were against hate

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I’m against hate.

I’m all for publicly shaming racists and the willful ignorant. How else are we supposed to crush Trumpism? If you’re still for trump in 2019, someone needs to tell you off. Trump is repulsive, disgusting, and deplorable.

I will say this, my rant against Cleutus was mostly just a tongue in cheek comment to see who’d be triggered by it. Buts there’s some truth in that we’re empowers people from increasingly isolated and homogeneous cultures because of their geographic location. We are rewarding people with more political power despite their economic production and cultural influence is in decline. That’s not good for American democracy.

The Thriller said:

I’m against hate.

I’m all for publicly shaming racists and the willful ignorant. How else are we supposed to crush Trumpism? If you’re still for trump in 2019, someone needs to tell you off. Trump is repulsive, disgusting, and deplorable.

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Guess we have a different definition of hate and racism. Let's hope for your sake, that your own definitions aren't applied to you. Unless you're comfortable with being a hypocrite. I guess if you can influence enough people to your cause, the end justifies the means?

jimmy eat jazz said:

I do think we ought to pump the brakes a bit claiming straight line causality from Trump's rhetoric to actions. Yeah, there may be 'stochastic terrorism' happening, but this is an empirical question, and the truth is likely not as simple as all that.

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I agree. In general, straight-line causality is only inferred by overlooking other factors. Even in simple conditions like one billiard ball striking another, changes may happen based on flaws in the balls, the table, etc. All causality should be in terms of contributing to the result, not directly causing it, including the link between Trump and white nationalism.

One Brow said:

I agree. In general, straight-line causality is only inferred by overlooking other factors. Even in simple conditions like one billiard ball striking another, changes may happen based on flaws in the balls, the table, etc. All causality should be in terms of contributing to the result, not directly causing it, including the link between Trump and white nationalism.

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These are pretty strong links, no?

Spaniard said:

Guess we have a different definition of hate and racism. Let's hope for your sake, that your own definitions aren't applied to you. Unless you're comfortable with being a hypocrite. I guess if you can influence enough people to your cause, the end justifies the means?

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Cool post. I liked how you typed letters and stuff.

The Thriller said:

Cool post. I liked how you typed letters and stuff.

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Lol - I'll let you guys get back to your echo chamber. Clearly you're not used to having your own definitions of hate and racism applied to what you say. It's ok, I know you feel justified and that you're right and everyone else is ignorant. Everyone else is Cleutus..