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2 Solutions We Have On Our Roster Right Now

Jingled said:
Having Davis on the floor is absolutely killing the second unit offense.

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Ben Dowsett looks like he would have the guts to play guys who have hunger in their eyes, and who have performed better.

Not this pandering nonsense that's going on at the Jazz. I tell ya what, there is a bunch of politics going on at the Jazz, and in that dressing room.

First David Locke starts spitting crap about not wanting to hurt the feelings of minimum contract guys, like they're effing superstars. Boone dancing around issues as he's trying to sugarcoat things in some of his analysis, so as to not upset anybody. Then interestingly enough Jeff Green was given sub of the game last game when he was awful, and Mudiay deserved it far more. Pandering to a minimum guy contract. 'We're not playing you the 27 minutes a game like you averaged last year, but look, we gave you the sub of the game, so everything is good, right Jeff? Right? Jeff?'

I'm not a Manchester United supporter in soccer (Football) by any stretch, there was a player they had not that long ago by the name of Roy Keane, who was also the captain of the club, and probably one of the best captains in whole of sports at that time. He was an absolutely no nonsense dude. Don't complain, don't pander. Play hard. Imagine if some of this nonsense was to be attempted at the club during his time, he would have whipped everybody into shape quick smart. He'd have absolutely none of this. Patrick Vieira from Arsenal was kind of the same as well.

Do what's best for the Jazz.
 
Dali said:
Ben Dowsett looks like he would have the guts to play guys who have hunger in their eyes, and who have performed better.

Not this pandering nonsense that's going on at the Jazz. I tell ya what, there is a bunch of politics going on at the Jazz, and in that dressing room.

First David Locke starts spitting crap about not wanting to hurt the feelings of minimum contract guys, like they're effing superstars. Boone dancing around issues as he's trying to sugarcoat things in some of his analysis, so as to not upset anybody. Then interestingly enough Jeff Green was given sub of the game last game when he was awful, and Mudiay deserved it far more. Pandering to a minimum guy contract. 'We're not playing you the 27 minutes a game like you averaged last year, but look, we gave you the sub of the game, so everything is good, right Jeff? Right? Jeff?'

I'm not a Manchester United supporter in soccer (Football) by any stretch, there was a player they had not that long ago by the name of Roy Keane, who was also the captain of the club, and probably one of the best captains in whole of sports at that time. He was an absolutely no nonsense dude. Don't complain, don't pander. Play hard. Imagine if some of this nonsense was to be attempted at the club during his time, he would have whipped everybody into shape quick smart. He'd have absolutely none of this. Patrick Vieira from Arsenal was kind of the same as well.

Do what's best for the Jazz.
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There is some truth to what Locke is saying in that Ed is buddies with everyone... especially Mike... buuuuuutttt here is the deal... lets say Ed continues to be *** and Tony gets some run and sucks worse than Ed did... Is Ed not gonna come in and play... like you sub him in and he is going to be worse than he currently is? At that point you go to the scrap heap and find a center and you will get better production than we currently are. Not like the locker room would stage a formal protest because you gave a player less playing time because he wasn't playing well. If they did then **** em cuz they ain't what we need.

Dudes want to pout that is fine... you could very well be out the league... Carmelo, Dwight, had to humble themselves and are now out there playing the right way. Green is tough because he fades in and out his whole career, but the big games are worth the indifferent ones... Ed has been consistently trash thus far... pick it up or sit down. We aren't afraid to bench Dante when he makes 10M a year and is a high pick... what is different about Ed, Jeff.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
There is some truth to what Locke is saying in that Ed is buddies with everyone... especially Mike... buuuuuutttt here is the deal... lets say Ed continues to be *** and Tony gets some run and sucks worse than Ed did... Is Ed not gonna come in and play... like you sub him in and he is going to be worse than he currently is? At that point you go to the scrap heap and find a center and you will get better production than we currently are. Not like the locker room would stage a formal protest because you gave a player less playing time because he wasn't playing well. If they did then **** em cuz they ain't what we need.

Dudes want to pout that is fine... you could very well be out the league... Carmelo, Dwight, had to humble themselves and are now out there playing the right way. Green is tough because he fades in and out his whole career, but the big games are worth the indifferent ones... Ed has been consistently trash thus far... pick it up or sit down. We aren't afraid to bench Dante when he makes 10M a year and is a high pick... what is different about Ed, Jeff.
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You play Ed because his ceiling of good play is higher and more likely than Tony's. It's not that complicated.
 
Does Ed Davis really have a higher ceiling then Bradley? I figure that catching the ball is a key basketball skill that Davis does not possess.
 
Here's my take on Davis:

You sign Davis because you're trying to somewhat approximate from the bench that which you have in the starting lineup. That is to say, a guy who comes in and can be relied upon for all the dirty work: grabbing rebounds, playing D, and knowing he's not the focal point of the offense. Now, Gobert is a bit different because he can open things up for other guys in different ways, but simplistically, you're mostly playing Gobert for his dfensive impact and you allow your other guys to fill in. The same thing with the bench. You aren't playing him to score. The problem has become is that you have a ****** offensive group off the bench, and none of those other guys do any of those "small things," so if they're not scoring, then you're screwed. It's harder to find a guy willing to play hard and do the dirty work than it is to find a guy who will shoot the ball. So yeah, when you have **** offense around Ed Davis, you expect **** matchups. But even when we were playing Bradley with the bench, those bench units were still worthless. Bradley gives up so many easy baskets that he's like Boozer and Kanter on steroids. His offensive stats look nice, but he's hurting you when he's on the floor. The problem isn't finding someone like Bradley to put on the floor with Niang, Green and Mudiay, it's about finding some better people or combos than Green and Niang.

I mean, imagine if Gobert was on a crappy team. Because your team sucks so bad, you wouldn't notice his impact, and you'd get frustrated with his "lack of offense," so you'd propose a stupid idea like replacing him with someone that puts up more points on the box score. That's our bench.

/Team Edward
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
There is some truth to what Locke is saying in that Ed is buddies with everyone... especially Mike... buuuuuutttt here is the deal... lets say Ed continues to be *** and Tony gets some run and sucks worse than Ed did... Is Ed not gonna come in and play... like you sub him in and he is going to be worse than he currently is? At that point you go to the scrap heap and find a center and you will get better production than we currently are. Not like the locker room would stage a formal protest because you gave a player less playing time because he wasn't playing well. If they did then **** em cuz they ain't what we need.

Dudes want to pout that is fine... you could very well be out the league... Carmelo, Dwight, had to humble themselves and are now out there playing the right way. Green is tough because he fades in and out his whole career, but the big games are worth the indifferent ones... Ed has been consistently trash thus far... pick it up or sit down. We aren't afraid to bench Dante when he makes 10M a year and is a high pick... what is different about Ed, Jeff.
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If Ed doesn't come in and play, I would question his professionalism. Tristan Thompson the other day had a go at the Cavs head coach on the court in plain view after Sexton took an I'll advised shot very early in the shot clock. TT didn't play for the rest of the game, and deservedly so. If Ed caused dissent because he didn't play, then he pays the consequence.

Even if Bradley only had/has another 2 or 3 good games, and then Ed takes his spot because Tony starts playing really poorly, then Ed can feel good about winning his place back in merit.

My final comment is tongue in cheek, so don't take it seriously, and that is that TB has overtaken Ed in player rating in NBA 2K. TB 75, Ed 74. :D
 
infection said:
Here's my take on Davis:

You sign Davis because you're trying to somewhat approximate from the bench that which you have in the starting lineup. That is to say, a guy who comes in and can be relied upon for all the dirty work: grabbing rebounds, playing D, and knowing he's not the focal point of the offense. Now, Gobert is a bit different because he can open things up for other guys in different ways, but simplistically, you're mostly playing Gobert for his dfensive impact and you allow your other guys to fill in. The same thing with the bench. You aren't playing him to score. The problem has become is that you have a ****** offensive group off the bench, and none of those other guys do any of those "small things," so if they're not scoring, then you're screwed. It's harder to find a guy willing to play hard and do the dirty work than it is to find a guy who will shoot the ball. So yeah, when you have **** offense around Ed Davis, you expect **** matchups. But even when we were playing Bradley with the bench, those bench units were still worthless. Bradley gives up so many easy baskets that he's like Boozer and Kanter on steroids. His offensive stats look nice, but he's hurting you when he's on the floor. The problem isn't finding someone like Bradley to put on the floor with Niang, Green and Mudiay, it's about finding some better people or combos than Green and Niang.

I mean, imagine if Gobert was on a crappy team. Because your team sucks so bad, you wouldn't notice his impact, and you'd get frustrated with his "lack of offense," so you'd propose a stupid idea like replacing him with someone that puts up more points on the box score. That's our bench.

/Team Edward
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I get that we didn't expect him to be good offensively, but our offense is really pick heavy and he is providing no value there... and it effs everything up to a point that those units have no chance. The idea was that he'd anchor the defense and provide some offensive rebounding to supplement his other deficiencies... but Bradley has been better there (granted some of those are the DeMarcus Cousins variety where he rebounds his own misses). Tony isn't the defensive turnstile you are suggesting at all (Kanter and Boozer on steroids... nah you are better than that). He's getting more blocks and fouling slightly less than Ed. The site isn't working, but I was shocked to see Bradley was among the leaders in contesting 2 point shot attempts per minute. Not sure how effective he was when he was contesting though... it isn't always a good sign. Bradley's defensive rating is slightly worse than Ed's.

I just don't think Ed gives the bench units a chance to have success. The difference in his defense is not as big as the difference in the offensive output between him and Tony.

He has been so bad at finishing that I have to believe he improves... he has missed some absolute ****ing bunnys… He is scoring 5 pts per 36M which is half his normal rate (would be last in the league among qualified players)... so I think it can improve, but we shouldn't wait too long to find out. Bradley isn't good... but his play has been better than Ed's and he's a young guy that could improve... Ed is on the downside of his career. If Ed doesn't turn it around in this 5 game stretch he should absolutely ride the pine and we should try anything else.
 
Pinpointing one guy is tough with the bench... I think the mix is a big part of the issue... so I'd like us to try something different but we seem to be resigned to forcing things to work with this group. Maybe Ed picks it up a bit and Joe might hit shots and boost that group. The effort last game was rough... the bench should be guys that come in and play like they hair on fire... no one is giving us that energy boost in that group.
 
I was very big on starting Ingles before the season started and it's weird but after his good play in the starting line-up, I would put him back on the 6th man role and get him in early to work with Gobert around 6-7 minute mark. That can also allow Davis to play with some of the starters.

If you can get 2 of Conley-Bogey-Mitchell to play with Davis you can actually iso a lot against bench units and Davis can get rebounds-putbacks because opponents would have to stick to their guys. Eye test may be wrong here but I see Davis putting a hand on the ball never really securing the rebound because he usually gets surrounded as soon as the shot goes up.
 
Qman said:
Does Ed Davis really have a higher ceiling then Bradley? I figure that catching the ball is a key basketball skill that Davis does not possess.
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No. Bradley's ceiling is higher especially considering age

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infection said:
Here's my take on Davis:

You sign Davis because you're trying to somewhat approximate from the bench that which you have in the starting lineup. That is to say, a guy who comes in and can be relied upon for all the dirty work: grabbing rebounds, playing D, and knowing he's not the focal point of the offense. Now, Gobert is a bit different because he can open things up for other guys in different ways, but simplistically, you're mostly playing Gobert for his dfensive impact and you allow your other guys to fill in. The same thing with the bench. You aren't playing him to score. The problem has become is that you have a ****** offensive group off the bench, and none of those other guys do any of those "small things," so if they're not scoring, then you're screwed. It's harder to find a guy willing to play hard and do the dirty work than it is to find a guy who will shoot the ball. So yeah, when you have **** offense around Ed Davis, you expect **** matchups. But even when we were playing Bradley with the bench, those bench units were still worthless. Bradley gives up so many easy baskets that he's like Boozer and Kanter on steroids. His offensive stats look nice, but he's hurting you when he's on the floor. The problem isn't finding someone like Bradley to put on the floor with Niang, Green and Mudiay, it's about finding some better people or combos than Green and Niang.

I mean, imagine if Gobert was on a crappy team. Because your team sucks so bad, you wouldn't notice his impact, and you'd get frustrated with his "lack of offense," so you'd propose a stupid idea like replacing him with someone that puts up more points on the box score. That's our bench.

/Team Edward
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If your question is Bradley or Davis (i.e. the Utah Jazz version of Davis, so far), then you’re either forced to ask a bad question or you’re just asking a dumb question. Clearly the question should be retooled because the answer is “neither, if possible.”
 
Davis is not a legitimate backup center. He doesn't have the height, length, or weight to anchor the paint. Bradley at least checks all those boxes.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Pinpointing one guy is tough with the bench... I think the mix is a big part of the issue... so I'd like us to try something different but we seem to be resigned to forcing things to work with this group. Maybe Ed picks it up a bit and Joe might hit shots and boost that group. The effort last game was rough... the bench should be guys that come in and play like they hair on fire... no one is giving us that energy boost in that group.
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Rookies, pls.
 
Ed Davis makes Olden Polynice look like an offensive force ...

Don’t worry that he signed cause Conley came or he likes Jeff green .... blah blah blah , just play Bradley
 
NAOS said:
Rookies, pls.
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I thought Royce with the second unit provided a much needed spark and energy for them. Joe hitting shots helped. Ed had a good stretch in the first half then continued to bring the double team to the ball and blow every layup attempt. At least he got some tip outs. Jeff Green was truly awful and wtf was Quin doing bringing Niang in for the first time in the fourth quarter... no rythymn so I don’t blame him for missing both shots but that’s a tough place for him to come in. Mudiay was really bad which means we likely get one good game out of him soon... the Mudiay Green roller coaster is rough.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I thought Royce with the second unit provided a much needed spark and energy for them. Joe hitting shots helped. Ed had a good stretch in the first half then continued to bring the double team to the ball and blow every layup attempt. At least he got some tip outs. Jeff Green was truly awful and wtf was Quin doing bringing Niang in for the first time in the fourth quarter... no rythymn so I don’t blame him for missing both shots but that’s a tough place for him to come in. Mudiay was really bad which means we likely get one good game out of him soon... the Mudiay Green roller coaster is rough.
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Good thing the Jazz think they don’t need any help and have $14 million committed to Exum and Davis. Not to mention >$30 million to Conley. Nope, no problems here. The Jazz can just play the five healthy NBA players they have 48 minutes a game.
 
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