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lauriandres said:
One Brow,

... why do you seem to be 100% sure, that it is not a biolab mishap?
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lauriandres,

There is a difference between a "biolab mishap", which this could well be, and a "product of biological warfare". You don't engineer a virus you can't control, that passes easily from person to person, because it obviously will come back to haunt you. Bioweapons are things you can cure, like anthrax.
 


Sigh

the damage done to our democracy by Fox News and these irresponsible Republicans promoting conspiracy and misinformation is so destructive.
 
If you listen to the full interview with Dr. Boyle, there's a lot more on there besides discussion of the Corona Virus. Now, this guy is an expert in biological warfare. You need to consider what he says carefully. He does not say that he's 100 percent sure the virus was created in that lab, which is definitely located near the alleged seafood market, but everything that he knows and based on his expert opinion that is how this virus was created. In fact, as we speak, more information pointing to the biological warfare lab is coming out.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
According to Francis Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law, who drafted the U.S. domestic implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, the Corona Virus is the product of biological warfare, the lab where it was produced being near the seafood market that allegedly was the source of the virus. The video with his interview is at this link: https://greatgameindia.com/dr-franc...ays-coronavirus-is-biological-warfare-weapon/
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Good article. Thanks for posting.
 
One Brow said:
lauriandres,

There is a difference between a "biolab mishap", which this could well be, and a "product of biological warfare". You don't engineer a virus you can't control, that passes easily from person to person, because it obviously will come back to haunt you. Bioweapons are things you can cure, like anthrax.
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I agree with you.

Although maybe the mishap was that the beta version of this virus got out (which might have some "bugs" i.e not cured as easy as it was designed). Of course, to claim that it is a bioweapon should be based on good evidence.

That is why on my earlier post jokingly suggested that big boys should recognize the independence of Taiwan :) to verify what is REALLY important to Chinese government - is it the government policy like it has always been or health of its citizens. I just hope that all kind of agencies in USA, UK, France and Japan have more inside information and are taking all kind of precautions behind the scenes.
 
The Thriller said:
Relax guys. Fox News tells me this virus killing people in China will be a boon to America’s economy! The more Chinese it kills the better it will be for America! #MAGA

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In fairness, his job is seeing the impact of events on the economy.

I heard various executive branch officials Kudlow) answer this the right way. That issue 1 is public health, not economics.

but hey, If you listen to some jazzfanz trump supporters I’m opposed to everything this administration does, ignoring all evidence.
 
lauriandres said:
I agree with you.

Although maybe the mishap was that the beta version of this virus got out (which might have some "bugs" i.e not cured as easy as it was designed). Of course, to claim that it is a bioweapon should be based on good evidence.

That is why on my earlier post jokingly suggested that big boys should recognize the independence of Taiwan :) to verify what is REALLY important to Chinese government - is it the government policy like it has always been or health of its citizens. I just hope that all kind of agencies in USA, UK, France and Japan have more inside information and are taking all kind of precautions behind the scenes.
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We don't have vaccines nor cures for any of the corona viruses (SARS, MERS, etc.). They would have chosen something else for a bioweapon.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
If you listen to the full interview with Dr. Boyle, there's a lot more on there besides discussion of the Corona Virus. Now, this guy is an expert in biological warfare. You need to consider what he says carefully. He does not say that he's 100 percent sure the virus was created in that lab, which is definitely located near the alleged seafood market, but everything that he knows and based on his expert opinion that is how this virus was created. In fact, as we speak, more information pointing to the biological warfare lab is coming out.
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"Now we don’t have evidence that this disease originated there, but because of China’s duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning we need to at least ask the question." - Cotton

I mean, I certainly see the point here and don't really have a problem with that train of thought. I'm not neccesarily drinking the Kool Aid and accepting it as truth (not sure if he's saying it as factual) but I'm not arrogant and ignorant enough to mock this way of thinking - doing so is a lil tone deaf to China and their lies and initial handling of the virus.
 
Archie Moses said:
"Now we don’t have evidence that this disease originated there, but because of China’s duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning we need to at least ask the question." - Cotton

I mean, I certainly see the point here and don't really have a problem with that train of thought. I'm not neccesarily drinking the Kool Aid and accepting it as truth (not sure if he's saying it as factual) but I'm not arrogant and ignorant enough to mock this way of thinking - doing so is a lil tone deaf to China and their lies and initial handling of the virus.
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You need to listen to Dr. Boyle. He's a far better source than FOX News -- drafted the U.S. domestic policy implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989. He did this while working in the Bush Administration.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
You need to listen to Dr. Boyle. He's a far better source than FOX News -- drafted the U.S. domestic policy implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989. He did this while working in the Bush Administration.
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I don't watch Fox News. I used Cottons quote as an example that scaled with somewhat of what you said too.

I'll have to look up Boyle.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
You need to listen to Dr. Boyle. He's a far better source than FOX News -- drafted the U.S. domestic policy implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989. He did this while working in the Bush Administration.
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What makes you think Dr. Boyle is credible on this matter?

His background is in international LAW, not medicine. Shouldn't we be referring to those with backgrounds in medicine to determine the origins and purposes of this virus?

https://law.illinois.edu/faculty-research/faculty-profiles/francis-boyle/
AREAS OF EXPERTISE
Constitutional Law (U.S. Foreign Affairs)
Human Rights
Jurisprudence
U.S. Foreign Affairs
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Nor is he teaching anything related to medicine:

COURSES
Constitutional Law of US Foreign Affairs
International Human Rights Law
International Law
Jurisprudence
Law Teaching Practicum
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Furthermore, his past remarks make me think he's less credible and more of a controversial huckster than anything else:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Francis_Boyle

Interesting views on the Bush family:
Boyle was a harsh critic of the foreign policy of former American President George W. Bush. In 2007 Boyle denounced the "ongoing criminal activities perpetrated by the Bush Jr. administration and its nefarious foreign accomplices in allied governments such as in Britain, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Georgia, etc."

He claimed the G. W. Bush administration "would welcome the outbreak of a Third World War" and "is fully prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons against Muslim and Arab states and peoples."

He also claimed that American treatment of Muslims and Arabs since the attacks of September 11, 2001 is "almost to the same extent that America inflicted upon the Japanese and Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor." He concluded his speech by calling on American lawyers to "lead the fight against the Bush Jr. dictatorship."[12]

Boyle has requested that the International Criminal Court Prosecutor obtain International Arrest Warrants for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Condoleezza Rice, and Alberto Gonzales.
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Interesting views on Clinton
Boyle endorsed the impeachment of Bill Clinton, though not for the reasons stated in the Articles passed by the House of Representatives. Instead, Professor Boyle called on Clinton to be impeached for the "right reasons" -- specifically: launching military attacks against Sudan, Afghanistan, and Iraq in violation of the War Powers Resolution and the U.S. Constitution
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Pretty strong feelings about Israel. Some may even call this anti-semitic:
Boyle is a harsh critic of Israel, Zionism, and American foreign policy towards Israel. In May 2008, Boyle offered to "represent Iran in an international tribunal for trying the Zionist regime on charges of genocide of Palestinians", and reportedly demanded that his proposal be submitted to Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
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Obama was bought and paid for by Zionists? Interesting...
In interview which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on October 26, 2010 (as translated by MEMRI), Boyle sharply criticized Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, stating that:

Obama was bought and paid for by Zionists. That's why Rahm Emanuel was his chief-of-staff, until just recently, when he decided to run for mayor of Chicago. Emanuel was bought and paid for to be put in there, the same way with [Dennis] Ross and the White House. Mrs. Clinton sold her soul to the Zionists in New York to get elected as senator from New York.
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American media and higher education is Zionist? Wow... LOL!
In interview which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on October 26, 2010 (as translated by MEMRI), Boyle claimed:

...all the major US news media sources are Zionist – every one of them. Likewise, higher education, here, in America, has become predominantly Zionist in its orientation
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In an article published in Veterans Today in 2010 titled "The Impending Collapse of Israel", Boyle stated that "God had no right to steal Palestine from the Palestinians and give Palestine to the Jews to begin with. A fortiori the United Nations had no right to steal Palestine from the Palestinians and give Palestine to the Zionists in 1947." In the same article, Boyle predicted that the state of Israel "will continue its rapid descent into pariah state status" and that "When Israel collapses, most Zionists will have already left or will soon leave for other states around the world. The Palestinians will then be able to claim all of the historic Mandate for Palestine as their State, including the entire City of Jerusalem as their Capital.
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Pretty strong feelings about Iran:
Boyle has urged Iran to sue the United States in the International Court of Justice to discourage a military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities
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Finally, Ukraine. His views here are absurd. He's promoting Russian propaganda justifying Putin's takeover of Crimea. So it makes sense that some of you nutjobs would be twitterpated over him.
In February 2014, Professor Boyle described the unfolding crisis in Ukraine as "a playbook CIA coup d'état":[36]

"I suspect this entire Ukraine Crisis had been war-gamed and war planned quite some time ago at the highest levels of US/NATO. Notice DOD slipped 2 US warships into the Black Sea just before the Olympics under a patently absurd pretext. In other words, what we are seeing unfold here is a US/NATO War Plan. They instigated the fascist coup against Yanukovich. They anticipated that Putin would then respond by taking over Crimea.

"I suspect the US/NATO/EU response will be to introduce military forces into Western Ukraine and Kiev and thus make Ukraine a de facto member of NATO, which has been their objective all along. They have already anticipated what Putin’s next move after that will be. Notice also the massive anti-Russian campaign by the Western News Media working in lock-step with each other. Another sign that all this has been planned well in advance.

"I suspect that US/NATO/EU figure that Putin knows they have this offensive, first-strike strategic nuclear capability with a rudimentary ABM/BMD capability so that at the end of the day he will be forced to stand down—or else. Compellence as opposed to Deterrence. Just like during the Cuban Missile Crisis. That is where this US/NATO/EU War Plan is heading on the assumptions that they can keep their deliberate Escalation Dominance under their control and that at the end of the day Putin will be forced to stand down just like Khrushchev did and for the same reasons. That would leave US/NATO/EU in control of at least half of Ukraine as a de facto NATO member state."
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So yeah, this nutjob definitely seems like the reliable "voice of reason" on this virus... /s

You guys should probably research more about the "professionals" you trust in.
 
Less than one month ago Tom Cotton said this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-sen-tom-cotton-on-face-the-nation-january-26-2020/

Taking his oath as seriously as Trump does:

SEN. COTTON: I don't know, MARGARET. I'm not going to vote to approve witnesses because the House Democrats have had lots of witnesses. We heard from them over and over and over again this week. We don't need to prolong what's already taken five months of the American people's time. The House Democrats have not proven their case against Donald Trump. We don't need to prolong this matter.
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Gaslighting us
SEN. COTTON: Well, I think given the House Democrats presentation, there are now real questions about Joe Biden and Hunter Biden's conduct. I mean, they spent hours trying to explain away what Hunter Biden did going to work for a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch and Joe Biden intervening to get that oligarch fired just days after his house was raided by investigators.
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And good old fashioned lying. Trump has denied Russia's interference on the world's biggest stages (including the phone call with Ukraine that started this entire thing). See below:
SEN. COTTON: It's the Democratic talking point that the president and his lawyers have argued that it was Ukraine who interfered in our elections, not Russia. You can read the president's brief. They make it very clear that, yes, you can accept that Russia interfered in a systematic, organized top-down fashion in our election. I say that. I've been part of the Intelligence Committee that's been investigating it for years. You can also say that it's clear some Ukrainian officials tried to influence the outcome of the election in 2016.
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Trump denies Russian interference:


Could've been Russia... China... Or a 400 lbs man:


So again, Tom Cotton and this nutjob professor aren't exactly people I'd trust to make reliable assumptions about Coronavirus. But when you trust fake news conspiracy sites and Fox News, what can you expect?
 
The Thriller said:
What makes you think Dr. Boyle is credible on this matter?

His background is in international LAW, not medicine. Shouldn't we be referring to those with backgrounds in medicine to determine the origins and purposes of this virus?

https://law.illinois.edu/faculty-research/faculty-profiles/francis-boyle/

Nor is he teaching anything related to medicine:

Furthermore, his past remarks make me think he's less credible and more of a controversial huckster than anything else:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Francis_Boyle

Interesting views on the Bush family:

Interesting views on Clinton

Pretty strong feelings about Israel. Some may even call this anti-semitic:

Obama was bought and paid for by Zionists? Interesting...

American media and higher education is Zionist? Wow... LOL!

Pretty strong feelings about Iran:

Finally, Ukraine. His views here are absurd. He's promoting Russian propaganda justifying Putin's takeover of Crimea. So it makes sense that some of you nutjobs would be twitterpated over him.

So yeah, this nutjob definitely seems like the reliable "voice of reason" on this virus... /s

You guys should probably research more about the "professionals" you trust in.
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Did you listen to the interview in full? He touched on other issues that you linked. He said himself that he has been censored. Surprised that a liberal like yourself believes the disinformation that has been put out there about him. He drafted the U.S. domestic policy implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 while working for the Bush Administration. I think he knows a bit about biological warfare and where the labs would be, having worked at the highest level of the government. But because he's become a critic, and rightly so, he's being smeared. That's nothing new with the powers that be. Anyone who criticizes their agenda is smeared.

There is a lot of truth that our media is strongly influenced by Zionist views. You really think establishing the state of Israel on the land of another nation and putting its citizens into concentration camps was just. And the Zionists justified with propaganda like the major movie, Exodus, which I saw as a kid. I saw nothing wrong with it myself because I didn't know better. But when I was in grad school a Palestinian speaker came to our school and I covered it for the university daily. It was an eye-opening revelation to me.

In the interview Boyle talked a bit about disinformation, which we all know is rampant, and has been for decades.

If I were you, I wouldn't depend on Wikipedia for the whole truth. It depends on the POV of those who write the entries. I've seen some that are either incomplete or totally biased.

Listen to the interview before you go all half-cocked and arrogant, calling the guy a nutjob. George W. Bush didn't think he was a nutjob giving him an important job like he did, and Bush was no idiot like Trump.
 
was drinking with some cray fisherman friends of mine yesterday, they live export to China, the export bans are hitting them really hard at the minute.
 
Rubashov said:
was drinking with some cray fisherman friends of mine yesterday, they live export to China, the export bans are hitting them really hard at the minute.
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I've been talking to a lot of small business owners in China and they are really suffering. But for Chinese people most is them have a good savings account to help at times like this. But I don't know how long China can keep things closed. The economy is already in real trouble this year without this. This is going to effect the world's economy.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I've been talking to a lot of small business owners in China and they are really suffering. But for Chinese people most is them have a good savings account to help at times like this. But I don't know how long China can keep things closed. The economy is already in real trouble this year without this. This is going to effect the world's economy.
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These guys were getting 400 bucks a kilo for their crays, (big cold water crayfish 3 to 5kg in size.) they were selling exclusively to china, now they are excluded from their market, other markets won't buy from them and the arse has fallen out of the price. The season opens on the 1st of March but there is almost no point going out to fish cause they've got nowhere to sell their catch, certainly not at the prices they were getting. Selling locally gets the around 80 to 100 bucks a kg.
 
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