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2020 Presidential election

Gameface said:
Death panels? Wait lists? Can't keep my current doctor?

No thanks, I'd rather have millions with no health care at all, millions die from preventable or treatable medical issues, millions suffer with easily treatable conditions. It puts hair on my chest knowing that it's survival of the wealthiest in 'murica.
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public system and private system operating simultaneously. Everyone pays a 1.5 % Medicare levy to fund the public system. People earning over a certain amount pay extra into said system if they don't take out private health insurance. Not perfect but nobody gets turned away from hospital.
 
Douchebag K said:
public system and private system operating simultaneously. Everyone pays a 1.5 % Medicare levy to fund the public system. People earning over a certain amount pay extra into said system if they don't take out private health insurance. Not perfect but nobody gets turned away from hospital.
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Yeah, Rubashov has mentioned that...
 
Douchebag K said:
public system and private system operating simultaneously. Everyone pays a 1.5 % Medicare levy to fund the public system. People earning over a certain amount pay extra into said system if they don't take out private health insurance. Not perfect but nobody gets turned away from hospital.
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Sounds pretty awesome

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Gameface said:
Bernie Bros have a reputation for their aggressive attacks on anyone who doesn't pass their purity test.

I mean holy ****, I said he wasn't my first choice but that I would absolutely support him and be completely happy to have him as the POTUS but that's not good enough for Cy. I hate health care reform and the middle class working people now...
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Dude, try not to make Bernie Bros your enemy. We are on the same side here

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Jonah said:
It was an editorial from a New Hampshire newspaper with a readership that includes Sanders home state of Vermont. The thrust of the editorial was income inequality and for a time it was posted to Sanders website. Sanders distanced himself from it because a throw-away line about Venezuela was being directly attributed to him. He simply clarified they were not his words or his position, yet dishonest conservatives continue to insinuate, nearly ten years later, that they were. The fact is Sanders has never once praised Venezuela as a model for socialism. He does point to Scandinavian-style socialism as well as FDR’s New Deal. Again, if you want to argue against Sanders brand of socialism, that’s the place to begin.
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Since when has Trump and his brand of Repub cared about the truth? They will paint any Democrat running against Trump with every lie they can come up with. The more clever the better. This is going to get ugly.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah and the thing is, it's more or less what a dozen developed Nations have right now. Except, you know, 'murica.
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Problem with Bernie from what I’ve seen is he also doesnt seem to present any kind of detailed alternative in specifics, just promises free **** to all and rambles on about Billionaires
 
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fishonjazz said:
Dude, try not to make Bernie Bros your enemy. We are on the same side here

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Is that a threat?

Just kidding. You know I'm all in on #nevertrump

If Sanders gets the nomination im happy for him and all his supporters.

But the goal is no more Trump. So I'll do absolutely everything possible to support Sanders if he's the nominee. No hesitation, just 100% support.

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Joe Bagadonuts said:
That is not even close to what I said. Fish, you are a smart guy and I believe that if you applied yourself in the right directions you could become rich yourself... if that's what you want (based on the little I know of you I'm not sure that it is). The point is that America is constantly creating rich people. It's not some exclusive club that's impossible to gain entrance into. Success leaves clues. You can follow them and get similar results if you want to.

I'm not saying it's fair. I do not believe fairness is possible and I believe that forced "fairness" is a recipe for mediocrity and below. I firmly believe that, although it is flawed, capitalism has proven itself to be the best system for allowing the most people to have the greatest outcomes.
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BS. Socioeconomic mobility has been decreasing in the US since the 70s or 80s. I saw recently (altho I can't right now remember where) that it's lower in the US than in the UK - a nation with actual nobility.

If you want to educate yourself, hell, the Wikipedia article is a good place to start. And you read the links and citations and get yourself a decent understanding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States
 
If the DNC plays dirty AGAIN and takes the nomination away from Sanders we're gonna get 4 more years of Trump. I think they know that.

They need someone to actually get more delegates than Sanders legit, without their overt interference. If that doesn't happen you've got to saddle up and ride with Sanders.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Remember when Sanders used to point to Venezuela as a model we should follow?
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Jonah said:
Sorry, that is not a Sander’s quote. He never wrote or said those words nor does he point to Venezuela as a model to follow.
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Jonah said:
Sanders distanced himself from it because a throw-away line about Venezuela was being directly attributed to him. He simply clarified they were not his words or his position, yet dishonest conservatives continue to insinuate, nearly ten years later, that they were.
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Among the news outlets, and others, that made the same mistake as Joe Bagadonuts were The National Review, The Weekly Standard, The Baltimore Sun, the L.A. Times, Forbes Magazine, The Federalist, The Ben Shapiro Show, and The Daily Wire.

https://quillette.com/2018/03/10/sanders-venezuela-meme/

All of the above "referred to, quoted, or paraphrased the same words as evidence of Sanders’s unambiguous devotion to Bolivarian economics. This sample doesn’t begin to cover the innumerable blogs, tweets, and social media posts which all repeat a variation on the same theme, but it is enough to illustrate the point."

Further: "Sanders’s critics would doubtless reply that cross-posting the article without clarification or caveat amounts to an endorsement. But an endorsement of what? The article is not about Venezuela or Bolivarianism (or Equador or Argentina, for that matter) but American inequalities, poverty, and lack of opportunities. The “Gaps that Threaten America” are domestic inequality, ‘the wealth gap,’ ‘the jobs gap,’ and racial disparities in property ownership. The only mention of Venezuela in the 600 word editorial comes in the endlessly circulated final two lines. It ought to be obvious to fair-minded people that, in the context of the article, this final rhetorical flourish was intended to shame America for failing to live up to its promise".
 
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Gameface said:
It must be nice living somewhere where no one outside that place gives a **** who your leaders are.
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The world noticed when he was on vacation while the country was raging with the most insane firestorm in recorded history.
 
This **** between the culinary union (in Nevada) and the Bernie campaign (and by that I mean both the official campaign and those grassrootsy people at the margin of the movement who are speaking for the whole movement) is very disappointing.

I hate when people pull the ladder up after themselves.

And I hate when people resort to bullying, shouting down, and exaggerated shame tactics.
 
I’m a Bernie supporter, but let me say this unambiguously: he hasn’t given nearly enough description of the economy he wants to see. He’s had the platform for 4 years. I hate to see that he’s the same target today for the same “socialist” memes. I wish he were a better politician.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Ahh, you're right. Sanders posted an op ed with that quote to his official website. He is now distancing himself from it. No surprise. Socialists have a longstanding habit of praising the theories that they dream of pursuing, while running from the actual results.
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Conservatives have a long history of lying about what democratic socialists desire.
 
One Brow said:
Conservatives have a long history of lying about what democratic socialists desire.
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Like I said, fear mongering that sells well among Trump supporters and “moderate” Democrats. We wouldn’t want the US to become a communist country like Spain or Denmark for implementing medicare for all..
 
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