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My hot take on what I'd do in the off-season.

Deron Williams said:
It seems no one wants to admit it, but the reason the Jazz look they're headed for 1st/2nd round purgatory--or worse as Gobert/Bojan/Ingles/Conley age--isn't just Mike Conley. Quite simply, the Jazz's best player, whether you think it's Rudy (which the stats would support) or Donovan (which seems to be the popular opinion here) is worse than the best player on most other Western contenders.

--Lakers have Lebron
--Clippers have Kawhi
--Houston has Harden
--Dallas has Doncic
--GSW has Steph
--Denver has Jokic

They made weird tweaks to RPM this year, but Donovan was 51st ranked among shooting guards by that metric. You can argue the accuracy of these advanced metrics--and I don't think Donovan is a below average guard--but none of the players listed above were outside the overall top 10 this season. Donovan has yet to have a season where he was above league average in either EFG% or TS%, and it's not like he makes up for that with tremendous defense. Meanwhile, guys like Harden & Curry shoulder big usage and maintain well above efficiency. The advanced stats like Rudy quite a bit (10th in RPM), but we've seen that certain matchups can blunt his effectiveness.

The bottom line in the NBA is that if you don't have a top 5 player, advancing deep in the playoffs is an uphill climb. We can argue about role players and whether or not Conley was the best use of resources (he wasn't), but ultimately, unless Donovan ups his offensive efficiency, it's unlikely to really matter. The Jazz will still be capped (at best) as a second-round team. And as the roster ages & Mitchell/Rudy sign expensive contracts, just maintaining the status quo of a 50ish win team will become increasingly difficult.
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well, you just showed the reason exactly why the problem IS Mike Conley.

Harden had Jeremy Lin
Steph had Monta Ellis
Doncic had DSJ
Jokic had Nurkic
Lebron had Ricky Davis

And Donovan have Conley.

Do you remember what happened to these guys afterwards?
 
Cptgrnlngs22 said:
Go big or go home. Trad Rudy for brown if you can. Trade conley and Davis for Harris. Resign clarkson sign favors.

Mitchell
JC
Brown
Joe
Bogie
Royce
Harris
Morgan/Bradley
Favors


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You would need a really solid backup Center. I like Favors but he cant play more than 20 mpg. If I thought he could that would be a solid lineup. A starting lineup of Mitchell, Brown, Bodie, Harris, Favors is good. If you picked up someone like Baynes I think that would be good.

I would also be down to take the risk of trying Conley for Blake Griffin. I think I would save Davis for another trade as well. I also like the Gobert for Wiggins and #2 pick trade option if that was available. Then using that pick to land a solid player.

But honestly if things are really okay between Mitchell and Gobert like is being reported I would be shocked if the team trades Gobert. We dont trade all-stars that want to be here away.
 
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Game 6 I thought Mason Plumlee turned that game. Early on we were looking unstoppable and in control. But than the bench comes in and Tony Bradley was a complete dud, but than Rudy came in and Plumlee even outplayed him! At that point I knew we were in trouble. Nuggets mentality changed and they were all the sudden playing the tougher/physical style that the jazz should be. They were now finishing through contact and flexing on us and we didn't answer.

The Ed Davis signing being a failure combining with losing Favors really set us back.

 
I kinda resigned to the fact that we probably won't make the playoff next season.

We are kinda stuck in a 2014 Brooklyn Nets-ish limbo for this next season.

Without the ability to make any major roster overhaul, the best we can hope for is a 7th or 8th seed finish and another early round exit from the playoff. This current roster has reached its full potential. It's only gonna be a downhill from here.


So i'm looking at possible moves we can make beyond the expiration of Conley's horrendous contract, which is in 2021/22. If we can tank our way to a top 5 spot in next year's draft in the process, that'd be a bonus.
 
It would else help to have a defender that didn't turn to stone at the sight of a Jamal Murray dribble move
 
prodigy said:
Game 6 I thought Mason Plumlee turned that game. Early on we were looking unstoppable and in control. But than the bench comes in and Tony Bradley was a complete dud, but than Rudy came in and Plumlee even outplayed him! At that point I knew we were in trouble. Nuggets mentality changed and they were all the sudden playing the tougher/physical style that the jazz should be. They were now finishing through contact and flexing on us and we didn't answer.

The Ed Davis signing being a failure combining with losing Favors really set us back.

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Ed would've been a fine signing if our perimeter defenders weren't looking for the center to help out on every possession
 
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Ron Mexico said:
His playoff stats this year show he might be a top 5 player. He took a big step forward. Mitchell is at the top of many advanced stats for playoffs this year and some for all-time in NBA history.
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Good post.

Regular season stats are interesting, but they aren't truly relevant to the playoffs. I've been saying it since the 2018 OKC series - Don is unquestionably our most important player for the postseason.

Rudy played pretty well against Houston last year, but we almost got swept due to our lack of talent and Don not playing great. His best game was our win.

This year, Rudy played average by his standards and we took it to 7 games on Don's back. This was without our 2nd best scorer and Conley for 2 games (some might say 3....).

Don is at the level of those other guys mentioned. The roster around them is the difference minus maybe Doncic. Last time I checked, Doncic hasn't won anything.


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
jom2003 said:
I kinda resigned to the fact that we probably won't make the playoff next season.

We are kinda stuck in a 2014 Brooklyn Nets-ish limbo for this next season.

Without the ability to make any major roster overhaul, the best we can hope for is a 7th or 8th seed finish and another early round exit from the playoff. This current roster has reached its full potential. It's only gonna be a downhill from here.


So i'm looking at possible moves we can make beyond the expiration of Conley's horrendous contract, which is in 2021/22. If we can tank our way to a top 5 spot in next year's draft in the process, that'd be a bonus.
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This is very pessimistic. Our roster won’t improve without a major overhaul? Let’s says we get a 20ppg scorer and an athletic defensive wing for next year. Aka Bojan comes back and we sign a Jerami grant type. We also now will have Clarkson for the entire season. After we traded for him we had a top 2 offense from December on. It’s easy to see us staying in the same range, maybe even moving up. Don definitely took a step up in the playoffs that will lead to playing changes for the next season. Cmon man, where’s the fandom? Where’s the optimism or at least an honest appreciation for the progress? Jazz rock.
 
MCarter said:
This is very pessimistic. Our roster won’t improve without a major overhaul? Let’s says we get a 20ppg scorer and an athletic defensive wing for next year. Aka Bojan comes back and we sign a Jerami grant type. We also now will have Clarkson for the entire season. After we traded for him we had a top 2 offense from December on. It’s easy to see us staying in the same range, maybe even moving up. Don definitely took a step up in the playoffs that will lead to playing changes for the next season. Cmon man, where’s the fandom? Where’s the optimism or at least an honest appreciation for the progress? Jazz rock.
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Well first adding Jerami Grant is considered "major" and we can't afford him on our current cap. He's paid 10mil already and will only opt out of his last year with Denver unless someone guarantees him more money. And that "someone" definitely wouldn't be us.
Also, next season we will see the return of Steph/Klay Warriors. A Suns team that's starting to figure it out and T'Wolves that are loaded with talents. So these teams will take at least one playoff spot away, which means someone has to make way. And you can bet it won't be the Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Houston, Mavs or even the Thunder.
Yes getting bojan back can help somewhat but he is already 31 yr old and will need time to get back to 100% after a big surgery. Plus even with him on the roster, we have been through frustrating losses against Rockets, Suns, Thunder, Spurs in front of our home crowd cuz teams started to realize the fact that we've got scoring but not much else. An aging Joe Ingles and Mike Conley who will only play worse every season on but combine for over 40mil wont help either.
 
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Wings don't grow on trees so we will need at least one season to redevelop our wings. Get one from the draft, then look at the international/G league market again for guys with the highest physical upside, preferably someone 6’8 or more. And let Quin teach these guys NBA basketball. But to make these guys contribute at NBA level, we will need at least one season.
 
LoPo said:
Good post.

Regular season stats are interesting, but they aren't truly relevant to the playoffs. I've been saying it since the 2018 OKC series - Don is unquestionably our most important player for the postseason.

Rudy played pretty well against Houston last year, but we almost got swept due to our lack of talent and Don not playing great. His best game was our win.

This year, Rudy played average by his standards and we took it to 7 games on Don's back. This was without our 2nd best scorer and Conley for 2 games (some might say 3....).

Don is at the level of those other guys mentioned. The roster around them is the difference minus maybe Doncic. Last time I checked, Doncic hasn't won anything.


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I think this is a big/short offseason for Mitchell. Kind of like Jordan's when he was ousted and beat up by Detroit. He can settle and be happy with his points and regular season wins and losing in the first/second round in the playoffs or he can go to work. Rework his body, like Jordan did and go from an "inefficient scorer" to All Defensive Player and Leader of a great team. Now, Jordan had Pippen and there is no one on Pippen's level on the Jazz, but if you are the Jazz you become much more willing to move Gobert after this playoff series and if Mitchell comes back a man possessed.
 
green said:
I think this is a big/short offseason for Mitchell. Kind of like Jordan's when he was ousted and beat up by Detroit. He can settle and be happy with his points and regular season wins and losing in the first/second round in the playoffs or he can go to work. Rework his body, like Jordan did and go from an "inefficient scorer" to All Defensive Player and Leader of a great team. Now, Jordan had Pippen and there is no one on Pippen's level on the Jazz, but if you are the Jazz you become much more willing to move Gobert after this playoff series and if Mitchell comes back a man possessed.
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Who has the capability either by draft, FA, or trade to be our poor mans Pippen?
 
uh... I'm not gonna read thru this whole thread sorry. I just want to chime in; Why in the world would Cleveland trade Kevin Love for Conley??
 
jom2003 said:
Well first adding Jerami Grant is considered "major" and we can't afford him on our current cap. He's paid 10mil already and will only opt out of his last year with Denver unless someone guarantees him more money. And that "someone" definitely wouldn't be us.
Also, next season we will see the return of Steph/Klay Warriors. A Suns team that's starting to figure it out and T'Wolves that are loaded with talents. So these teams will take at least one playoff spot away, which means someone has to make way. And you can bet it won't be the Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Houston, Mavs or even the Thunder.
Yes getting bojan back can help somewhat but he is already 31 yr old and will need time to get back to 100% after a big surgery. Plus even with him on the roster, we have been through frustrating losses against Rockets, Suns, Thunder, Spurs in front of our home crowd cuz teams started to realize the fact that we've got scoring but not much else. An aging Joe Ingles and Mike Conley who will only play worse every season on but combine for over 40mil wont help either.
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You sound like an accountant. Are you an accountant? Overly pessimistic to guard against possible disappointment. Gotta get you a pass aboard the Jazz train. Next stop, home court advantage in the playoffs. Woop Woop.
 
DasJazz said:
Who has the capability either by draft, FA, or trade to be our poor mans Pippen?
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Nobody will be Pippen because he was one of a few guys athletic enough and good enough on defense to guard pretty much anything other than centers. Phil called him the best defender on his Bulls' teams without a doubt. Pip could also score and pass too.

In today's game, Jaylen Brown would be perfect but highly unlikely.

Maybe one of these guys is a poor man's Pippen, at least on defense, on a bad team and might be attainable:
Miles Bridges - Charlotte
Frank Ntilikina - New York
Mikal Bridges - Phoenix
Sekou Doumbouya - Detroit
 
LoPo said:
Nobody will be Pippen because he was one of a few guys athletic enough and good enough on defense to guard pretty much anything other than centers. Phil called him the best defender on his Bulls' teams without a doubt. Pip could also score and pass too.

In today's game, Jaylen Brown would be perfect but highly unlikely.

Maybe one of these guys is a poor man's Pippen, at least on defense, on a bad team and might be attainable:
Miles Bridges - Charlotte
Frank Ntilikina - New York
Mikal Bridges - Phoenix
Sekou Doumbouya - Detroit
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I like Shaq Harrison... not as big as some of those guys but gets a lot of deflections, steals, and for a guard he gets blocks and rebounds at a high rate. He is listed at 6-7 on bbreference but he aint really that. He's 15th in the league in Defensive RPM... it isn't a fool proof way of finding gems but there are times when it kind of predicts a guy breaking out. He shot abnormally high 3p% this year for him... I don't trust it but it is a good sign at least.

Bulls were actually good defensively this year which is surprising. Shaq was part of the reason... team had a dfrtg of 103 when he was on the floor 111 when he was off. Part of that is likely related to playing 2/3 of his minutes without Zach Lavine.

I think he'd be cheap and could play 1-3 for us. I think he's the type that can stick to a Jamal Murray type. If his shooting is real then you are truly on to something.
 
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