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Are we really a contender?

Are we still contenders this year?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 21.8%

  • No

    Votes: 47 54.0%

  • Yes, if we shake things up

    Votes: 17 19.5%

  • Don't care/wait and see

    Votes: 4 4.6%
  • Total voters
    87
LogGrad98 said:
I think this is Quin in basically every game where to us it seems the wheels are falling off.

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From his response both in game and in the press conferences afterward and in between, I think he feels like it is all part of the process. Some days we play with the odds and averages, some days we exceed them, some days we don't, and that is fine because over time the plan will generate more wins than losses. He misses the bigger picture that people are not statistics so we cannot rely on them always doing what you expect so that your results can average out, especially in the playoffs. Quin does not adapt because he doesn't feel he needs to. He can make major changes, like at half-time, but once the new scheme is figured out, or our guys are not executing properly, he doesn't have any other way to adapt, or he doesn't feel he needs to, so he rides it out and thinks "next game we will shoot better and win, and that will lead to our 65% planned win rate". He is a good strategist, but a terrible tactician, and unfortunately those coaches and teams that are better at adapting their in-the-moment tactics will beat him every time for this reason. I doubt we ever get out of the 2nd round with Quin as the coach mainly for this reason. There aren't enough games for it all to average out when your opponent does the unexpected and you don't have the tactics in your bag to counter it. "Stay the course" doesn't work when someone throws a huge log in the river in front of you.
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Nah, a house fire is a really big anomaly. The house shouldn’t be on fire in the next half or the next game. We’ll be fine. Since house fires are so rare, it’s going to extinguish itself, so don’t even bother looking for an emergency exit.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think this is Quin in basically every game where to us it seems the wheels are falling off.

View attachment 11583

From his response both in game and in the press conferences afterward and in between, I think he feels like it is all part of the process. Some days we play with the odds and averages, some days we exceed them, some days we don't, and that is fine because over time the plan will generate more wins than losses. He misses the bigger picture that people are not statistics so we cannot rely on them always doing what you expect so that your results can average out, especially in the playoffs. Quin does not adapt because he doesn't feel he needs to. He can make major changes, like at half-time, but once the new scheme is figured out, or our guys are not executing properly, he doesn't have any other way to adapt, or he doesn't feel he needs to, so he rides it out and thinks "next game we will shoot better and win, and that will lead to our 65% planned win rate". He is a good strategist, but a terrible tactician, and unfortunately those coaches and teams that are better at adapting their in-the-moment tactics will beat him every time for this reason. I doubt we ever get out of the 2nd round with Quin as the coach mainly for this reason. There aren't enough games for it all to average out when your opponent does the unexpected and you don't have the tactics in your bag to counter it. "Stay the course" doesn't work when someone throws a huge log in the river in front of you.
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This was something refreshing about Sloan, he had no problem calling a spade a spade. If they were jackpotting around he called them out for it. He benched people. In short, he managed his team to work the plan.

Maybe the problem isn't Quin's management, but the plan itself.
 
I only follow a few Twitter Jazz people but a lot of stuff ends up in my feed. Today I saw this:



Reading through those tweets I had two main thoughts:

1. They seem bad, but they’ve always been true.

2. How long will everyone continue to tolerate watching Rudy Gobert getting nailed to Quin Snyder’s cross?
 
Yeah I take back my yes answer. It’s not necessarily losing. But it’s the not trying and seemingly not really giving af that seems way too common for a contender
 
Does anyone who voted yes still truly believe this team can win a championship this season?
 
Jingled said:
Does anyone who voted yes still truly believe this team can win a championship this season?
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I've given up. I've always said that it's never as good or as bad as it seems....but these recent loses are horrendous and I think the team is aware that the end is coming soon. They just aren't mentally tough enough to get out of this. Wouldn't surprise me if several players and Quin are already thinking about what's next. Boston was in a very bad spot early this year and pulled it together. Now they're playing like the best team in the league. I think the Jazz also have that potential in them, but like I said, just too mentally weak and it looks like they're all mentally checked out and ready for the next chapter. If this roster was focused and committed to winning it would be one thing, but it's so late in the season and all we've seen is more quit. Hell, even Rudy looks like he doesn't want to compete anymore. Beyond all that, this team just isn't as talented as good as it was last year with Joe gone and Conley aged.

It's highly likely the Jazz will end up as first round underdogs, and I think it would be a big upset to beat GSW or DAL at this point. Winning three more series after that is unthinkable.
 
I kind of don’t want them to make the playoffs. Let’s just put this jazz iteration to sleep, let Quin go to SA and Don to PG (or NY). I’m ready to see what Danny Ainge tryna do
 
Find a way to get rid of Conley, Bogey, and JC, and cut Gay if that’s possible. Make Mitchell the starting pg, Naw or House the starting sg, and the hard part, get a top level athletic offensive player that can defend some. God have mercy on us!!!
 
footawn said:
I kind of don’t want them to make the playoffs. Let’s just put this jazz iteration to sleep, let Quin go to SA and Don to PG (or NY). I’m ready to see what Danny Ainge tryna do
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May as well make the playoffs. What’s the point of missing them? We don’t have our pick, and missing them probably makes Mitchell at the very least wonder about if it’s best for him to leave. I want him feeling as good as possible about what the jazz are doing. Also, can we even miss the playoffs. Even if we had our pick, missing the playoffs is dumb and has no bearing to making us better unless there’s another Karl Malone around the 13th-14th picks. And I doubt that.
 
Yeah we have simply looked defeated in the last few games. I really think Quin carries more of this burden than anyone (read: the team, media, FO, etc.) want to admit. He just doesn't have any answers when things start to get tight or things are going rough. He doesn't make the best use of his resources, and he doesn't know how to set up actual "plays" to generate quick scores. The defense, especially from the wing/guard positions, has been abysmal with a few small bright spots (Juancho, NAW, even Butler at times) that he refuses to go back to. Last night we needed stops, and we were getting scored on by bigger more athletic players, so did he bring in NAW or Juancho to match up to that? No, of course not, just run with the same guys over and over. Beating their heads against the wall. And that is exactly how they looked, beaten. Mitchell needs to be reigned in at the end of games, and the offense needs to run through Conley to get the blender going and generate open shots. That was when we were at our best, when we were moving the ball and the guys were moving around without the ball. But as soon as we get it to a stopper, whether Mitchell or Clarkson, all of that stops and the rest of the team turn into spectators. They may as well get a chair and some popcorn like everyone else and watch Mitchell go head-on into the teeth of 3 defenders. We are easy to defend because every single team has scouted us enough to know that is all we will do in the end. There is nothing else in the bag of tricks. And it is a terrible failure. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and so far it all tastes like ****. The worst record in close games of any playoff team, including play-in teams. The worst clutch shooting of any of those same teams. And Mitchell is leading the charge with some of the worst shooting in the NBA among high-usage players when the game is close.

But a competent coach would recognize this, plan for it, and practice and drill to get the team to understand what needs to be done to mitigate this. Instead Quin just doubles down and triples down on the soft 17 he is holding against the dealers face card showing. Odds are you lose that bet 9 times out of 10. But he keeps making the same bet. The frustrating thing to me is that the players reflect this because they do not have any better weapons. Yes the players own part of this, how hard they play, if they bring an edge, if they go at their assignments with the intent to win every battle to win the war. But the general has not prepared them for battle. He has one shot he can take, but as soon as that wad is gone, he is at a loss what to do. And hence, so are the players. It is painful to watch. I want to see Jensen coach for a few games again. Bring a different vibe and some different looks maybe.

But, as the saying goes: change the people, or change the people. And it is time to just change Quin. He won't budge and his system is fully exposed. Time for new blood and new ideas. I get that he is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league, that's fine and dandy, but just like when a good manager has lost their team, or lost their fire, it is time to move them and bring in someone else, to freshen things up. We are there with Quin right now. I really hope we explore other coaching options in the off-season. Otherwise we can expect another year of the same game played the same way, but maybe with a few different pieces in the game. Swapping a knight for a bishop when you only know one way to play the end-game can only get you so far.
 
Someone I wish we had kept is Grayson Allen. He would provide the nasty and the fire we are missing. He is a key cog for a Bucks team that has a great shot at repeating as champions. We have no assholes, as @Handlogten's Heros regularly points out, and we need a few. Gobert used to play with more fire, now he just complains to the refs. Sure the officiating is ridiculous this season, but they need to learn to get over it and play the ****ing game. No, they are not calling a foul on the 4 guys holding and slapping you while you dunk that ball, and yes they are calling a touch foul on you when you slightly lower your arm on that block. Get the **** over it. It has been that way all year. They did this on purpose so no one is surprised when the playoffs is a chaotic officiating nightmare. But move the **** on, get back down court, and own that paint! When your most passionate player is playing rote through the motions, well that does not bode well. And the guys we have that do play with some fire rarely see the court. So yeah, I wish we had held onto Allen. Give us some nasty that we desperately need.
 
The question is no longer on if we will get eliminated or when we will get eliminated, but on how we gonna get eliminated. It would be a clean sweep if we take on one of those teams that put together a five out lineup. I don't see us taking a single game against teams that play switch defense.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I am not denying that, but he still has the nasty we desperately need.
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He’s a cheap shot guy… we need a full time *******. When Pat Bev was being passed around like @Hearsky s mom this summer we should have really been in on that.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah we have simply looked defeated in the last few games. I really think Quin carries more of this burden than anyone (read: the team, media, FO, etc.) want to admit. He just doesn't have any answers when things start to get tight or things are going rough. He doesn't make the best use of his resources, and he doesn't know how to set up actual "plays" to generate quick scores. The defense, especially from the wing/guard positions, has been abysmal with a few small bright spots (Juancho, NAW, even Butler at times) that he refuses to go back to. Last night we needed stops, and we were getting scored on by bigger more athletic players, so did he bring in NAW or Juancho to match up to that? No, of course not, just run with the same guys over and over. Beating their heads against the wall. And that is exactly how they looked, beaten. Mitchell needs to be reigned in at the end of games, and the offense needs to run through Conley to get the blender going and generate open shots. That was when we were at our best, when we were moving the ball and the guys were moving around without the ball. But as soon as we get it to a stopper, whether Mitchell or Clarkson, all of that stops and the rest of the team turn into spectators. They may as well get a chair and some popcorn like everyone else and watch Mitchell go head-on into the teeth of 3 defenders. We are easy to defend because every single team has scouted us enough to know that is all we will do in the end. There is nothing else in the bag of tricks. And it is a terrible failure. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and so far it all tastes like ****. The worst record in close games of any playoff team, including play-in teams. The worst clutch shooting of any of those same teams. And Mitchell is leading the charge with some of the worst shooting in the NBA among high-usage players when the game is close.

But a competent coach would recognize this, plan for it, and practice and drill to get the team to understand what needs to be done to mitigate this. Instead Quin just doubles down and triples down on the soft 17 he is holding against the dealers face card showing. Odds are you lose that bet 9 times out of 10. But he keeps making the same bet. The frustrating thing to me is that the players reflect this because they do not have any better weapons. Yes the players own part of this, how hard they play, if they bring an edge, if they go at their assignments with the intent to win every battle to win the war. But the general has not prepared them for battle. He has one shot he can take, but as soon as that wad is gone, he is at a loss what to do. And hence, so are the players. It is painful to watch. I want to see Jensen coach for a few games again. Bring a different vibe and some different looks maybe.

But, as the saying goes: change the people, or change the people. And it is time to just change Quin. He won't budge and his system is fully exposed. Time for new blood and new ideas. I get that he is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league, that's fine and dandy, but just like when a good manager has lost their team, or lost their fire, it is time to move them and bring in someone else, to freshen things up. We are there with Quin right now. I really hope we explore other coaching options in the off-season. Otherwise we can expect another year of the same game played the same way, but maybe with a few different pieces in the game. Swapping a knight for a bishop when you only know one way to play the end-game can only get you so far.
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There are some things he does that just seem so obvious… Trent ain’t it… you have NAW or JB and you ride Forrest. It’s far from our biggest problem but it’s such an obvious switch to flip.

Also if we have a small ball lineup it has to have Rudy Gay… he’s by far our best non center rebounder and can on occasion affect shots at the rim. It’s ****ing wild that the front court of Juan and Eric gets thrown out there when Eric is a piss poor rebounder. This is such an easy fix. This is one of the two reasons Rudy was brought in… to help us have some sort of small ball look and to help us size up with Gobert when we need to.

Sometimes I think Quin is too into the details to see obvious **** he should change.
 
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