LoPo
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You honestly think it's good for the team that he complains as much as he does about his teammates? Is he perfect? Does Quin coach perfectly?
Trade deadline discussion
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I’d be curious how much of a public airing of grievances there would be, if any, if a coach was doing his ****ing job. Does Quin stress this? All evidence points to no. This isn’t Rudy’s job, but the guy whose job it is is MIA. When someone doesn’t do their job and carry their expectations for their roles, it creates friction amongst the rest. I’ll again cite the Deron vs. Sloan false dichotomy, which was really a result of the extremely passive management and personnel strategy of Kevin O’Connor and Greg Miller.
Quin came in to the league with the reputation of a hardass, and the run in Donovan’s rookie year with that team, and DL’s “make the team like visiting a bad dentist” strategy, coupled with Quin’s stuff like getting ejected going after the ref… but now it’s all puff.
Quin came in to the league with the reputation of a hardass, and the run in Donovan’s rookie year with that team, and DL’s “make the team like visiting a bad dentist” strategy, coupled with Quin’s stuff like getting ejected going after the ref… but now it’s all puff.
LoPo
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I agree - I think Rudy says stuff that Quin should be addressing.
I also think Rudy should shut up, and I'd be willing to bet that his teammates feel the same way. Just because he's right doesn't mean he should publicly throw his teammates under the bus.
The only way we're going to complete in the playoffs is by being a defensive team. We don't trade Rudy - our best defender. That's the absolute worst thing we can do.
Bogie is likely our best trade piece (aside from Rudy and DM) and definitely has value. I also wouldn't mind trading Royce (mainly because Snyder plays him like he's amazing no matter what and expects him to guard players who are half a foot taller), or Ingles, though that's simply my personal wish. I would much prefer having Gay start over Royce. And Ingles is falling apart, physically.
Nobody is going to want to trade for JC unless we throw in assets, so it isn't worth it. All we can do is hope the guy turns it around and starts playing like last season.
I doubt we trade Conley as he's been mostly consistent and is likely performing how the front office expected. I think Mike will actually player better post all-star break and Jazz fans will appreciate him.
Bogie is likely our best trade piece (aside from Rudy and DM) and definitely has value. I also wouldn't mind trading Royce (mainly because Snyder plays him like he's amazing no matter what and expects him to guard players who are half a foot taller), or Ingles, though that's simply my personal wish. I would much prefer having Gay start over Royce. And Ingles is falling apart, physically.
Nobody is going to want to trade for JC unless we throw in assets, so it isn't worth it. All we can do is hope the guy turns it around and starts playing like last season.
I doubt we trade Conley as he's been mostly consistent and is likely performing how the front office expected. I think Mike will actually player better post all-star break and Jazz fans will appreciate him.
Lopo really says some crazy **** to justify hating Gobert.
For a secondary trade. Could be part of a bigger multi-team deal.
Somehow we finagle Smart and Grant, or hell maybe Kuzma or Collins.
Aw, sad. I kind of barely know that he is a basketball player.
LoPo
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It's crazy to say that Rudy bashing his teammates to the media might rub them the wrong way? And how is the truth hate?
Any objective person knows that Rudy venting to the media about his teammates is a negative. Any objective person.
I find it repellent that Rudy subtweets his ****, but at the same time, if Quin isn’t succeeding or is barely trying to instill better habits, and the team ultimately is playing chucker ball and leaving it up to him to be the entire defense, one could make an argument for the utility of calling out his teammates as a last-ditch effort.
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To be clear, what I quoted was talking about him addressing those things in private. Seems he tries that first.
LoPo
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Seems like Boston is active. Many reports out there are saying that they are shopping Horford, Richardson and Schroder. They are looking for a center upgrade.
Most likely, they will wait until Marcus Smart is trade eligible (January 25) to make a trade.
Handlogten's Heros
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Even if you do it in private and it doesn’t work you should keep that **** out of the media. And you can’t do it and single out one guy like that. It isn’t just Donovan’s fault… we have like 3-4 guys basically incapable of playing amazing defense and 5-6 that waffle in their commitment. It’s guys like JC that have some tools… that have lower minutes and less responsibility that you’d look at first imo. So call everyone out in public but don’t call everyone out and then specifically target one dude. This is people management 101. I do agree with @infection though… this should be Quins job and he’s a *****. So I get what Rudy is trying to do but he’s not the first choice of people manager/leader. He’s a little awkward based on stuff you hear… Rudy is right but he’s also wrong.
Avery
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The reality is that we've gone all-in on this team as currently composed. Next year isn't going to bring about much in the way of changes unless we trade salary for salary and I doubt Smith is going to want to throw dollars at the lux tax repeatedly.
We've got 2.5 more years to properly contend or we're blowing it up and starting again.
We've got 2.5 more years to properly contend or we're blowing it up and starting again.
LoPo
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Let's say we hypothetically do that. And we probably end this postseason like we did last postseason - maybe 2nd round, but not further.
This summer, Ingles' contract expires as do a few of the role players (Paschall, Whiteside, Hughes, etc.). Our contracted players (Rudy, Conley, Don, Bojan, JC, Royce and Gay) have salary increases that amount to around $10 million. We are a luxury team with just those 7 players. Donovan and Royce are the only players who aren't 30+, and Royce is 29.
Do we re-sign Joe to go further into the luxury? Do we sign a Joe replacement using an exception but go further into the luxury? Do we have faith that this "core" has any chance of getting better considering their ages?
Handlogten's Heros
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Locke addressed the Marcus Smart rumor today... so maybe there is some smoke... I mean I think anyone could connect dots and guess correctly that there has at least been a conversation.
If it is true there is draft compensation due to us I think it would have to be something like Bojan and JC for Smart and Richardson or Bojan and Ingles for Smart and Richardson... other salary has to be involved obvi. I love Bogey and think if we are to reach our highest levels I think he needs to be part of team but I think any hope of championship is kinda just out of the question as presently constituted... so if we had to do then we have to do it. If we can do a smart deal and not give a first I'd very much prefer that... I think we are close to a re-build (2-3 years unless we get a big draft or acquisition) so we need to keep our future open ended.
Handlogten's Heros
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This is why we need cost controlled guys on bargain contracts or we need to shop in the minimum vet market for the roles that JC and possible Royce provide. Unless they can trade JC I don't see us taking on more salary for next year... if we do then you can bet your *** that Bogey or JC get moved for little or no returning salary... Mike too but they'd kick tires on the other guys first.
Handlogten's Heros
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Needing minimum guys producing is why I'd give House a deal right now if he will give us a second year team option at the minimum. If the budget cuts come I think Royce and JC's roles are the easiest to replicate on a budget...
On the one hand, we have two dudes that have all the appearances of leadership but don’t actually do it (Donovan and Quin), and on the other we have a dude that’s awkward and passive-aggressive but at least tries (Gobert).
Somewhere in between we have Conley who preaches calmly and quietly, opting more to lead by example, but won’t hold people accountable or raise hell if it’s needed.
It would be great if we had anyone that checked all the boxes, but we don’t. It would be great if each of their leadership shortcomings were filled by the strengths or efforts of others, but it appears that they don’t (which is probably why the disconnect is as destructive as it is). Of all three styles, I rank fake leaders (Derek Fisher types) last.
Something needs to change in the locker room in a big way. Maybe the piece that ties it all together is a real, loud ************ that isn’t scared to get on his teammates and isn’t passive or awkward about it. Maybe this is the case for a guy like Smart.
Somewhere in between we have Conley who preaches calmly and quietly, opting more to lead by example, but won’t hold people accountable or raise hell if it’s needed.
It would be great if we had anyone that checked all the boxes, but we don’t. It would be great if each of their leadership shortcomings were filled by the strengths or efforts of others, but it appears that they don’t (which is probably why the disconnect is as destructive as it is). Of all three styles, I rank fake leaders (Derek Fisher types) last.
Something needs to change in the locker room in a big way. Maybe the piece that ties it all together is a real, loud ************ that isn’t scared to get on his teammates and isn’t passive or awkward about it. Maybe this is the case for a guy like Smart.
LoPo
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I agree on Bojan. I think he's our third most important player. We simply have to have an elite floor spacer for Rudy and Don to do what they want to do. Trading him for anybody Boston has just makes us need another shooter.
Clarkson for Smart works, but I doubt Boston does that.
Conley for Smart and Schroder works, but I doubt Boston does that.
Conley and Clarkson for Smart, Richardson and Schroder works, but I doubt Boston does that.
Conley and Gay for Smart and Richardson works, but I don't know if we go for that.
Conley for Smart, Williams, and Langford works, but I don't know if we go for that.
If I had to guess, this deal is centered on Conley for Smart, but we want a pick back since we spent two on Conley.