Who's back next season?

infection said:

“Anytime you receive a Zeller or a Plumlee, you’ve lost the trade.”

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Facts… wonder which smart guy said that

If you can get both a Zeller and a Plumlee in the same trade… we’ll you still lose the trade but it’d be funny AF and likely have the same effect as crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.

Handlogten's Heros said:

I think taking Hayward is a big reason for the other value… I think that is non-negotiable from Hornets perspective. He’d been rumored to be on the block for a year and his last season didn’t help… just a health issue. We could for sure get Plumplee in the deal who is fine but I hate watching him.

The guy I try to sneak into the deal if it’s me is McDaniels… long athletic wing on a minimum expiring deal so it might be a no go.

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If we have to take Hayward, then we need to find another place for him. Too much baggage here, and if we are trying to build around Donovan, it doesn't help having a key player who only plays 50 games a year.

As for Plumlee, I don't expect him to play major minutes. I would want him in that Whiteside role, but Plumlee would provide much more than some rebounding and defense. We need somebody who can act like a leader.

If we have to take Hayward, I would expect to take any young guy they got except Bridges. Hayward is a really bad contract.

Just watch a French podcast with Fournier as a guest. They ask him about Jazz situation ( he is one of Rudy best mate) and his answer was quite clear. Jazz need both of them and he did not see any of them traded unless they ask for it. He more think Jazz will add pieces to improve the team by trading other players. Let's see..

Handlogten's Heros said:

Facts… wonder which smart guy said that

If you can get both a Zeller and a Plumlee in the same trade… we’ll you still lose the trade but it’d be funny AF and likely have the same effect as crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.

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This trade is hot fire:

LoPo said:

Not bad.

I personally would rather have Rozier and Plumlee than Hayward though. It's almost the exact same money.

I really like Plumlee. His hustle, grit, desire and leadership would be great for this team. Rozier has many of those same qualities.

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Dear god man. No.

Elizah Huge said:

Dear god man. No.

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As for Plumlee, I don't expect him to play major minutes. I would want him in that Whiteside role, but Plumlee would provide much more than some rebounding and defense. We need somebody who can act like a leader.

FrenchJazzFa said:

Just watch a French podcast with Fournier as a guest. They ask him about Jazz situation ( he is one of Rudy best mate) and his answer was quite clear. Jazz need both of them and he did not see any of them traded unless they ask for it. He more think Jazz will add pieces to improve the team by trading other players. Let's see..

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Tony Jones said the same thing pretty much. They didn’t go into detail on how exactly they can get better, because anyone that has given it more than two minutes of thought would realize the Jazz have no ways of improving this roster. I would think Tony Jones would realize that, but apparently not and of course no one asked him how the Jazz can improve this offseason outside of trading one of the two mental midgets. The Jazz a ****ed for like the next 4 or 5 years easy.


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LoPo said:

If we have to take Hayward, then we need to find another place for him. Too much baggage here, and if we are trying to build around Donovan, it doesn't help having a key player who only plays 50 games a year.

As for Plumlee, I don't expect him to play major minutes. I would want him in that Whiteside role, but Plumlee would provide much more than some rebounding and defense. We need somebody who can act like a leader.

If we have to take Hayward, I would expect to take any young guy they got except Bridges. Hayward is a really bad contract.

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Oh if Plumplee was here he’d start 100% guaranteed. He’s the guy coaches live but fans can’t stand watching. I think he’s actually an okay player just not fun to watch imo.

As I think about these trades I get all sorts of red blinkly lights going off in my head that signal to me that @infection is right and we need to change our coach to revamp the defense because if Wuin runs his same **** we’d be the worst defense in the league. I have no faith he will redo the whole system based on the last three years of no adjustments.

LoPo said:

If we have to take Hayward, then we need to find another place for him. Too much baggage here, and if we are trying to build around Donovan, it doesn't help having a key player who only plays 50 games a year.

As for Plumlee, I don't expect him to play major minutes. I would want him in that Whiteside role, but Plumlee would provide much more than some rebounding and defense. We need somebody who can act like a leader.

If we have to take Hayward, I would expect to take any young guy they got except Bridges. Hayward is a really bad contract.

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I do think you could flip Hayward elsewhere. Hayward the player I actually would love to have... even if his health isn't great... Hayward the person with the baggage would be a tough sell.

His dollar amount is high but he's still good when healthy... and its only for two years. Some flip Hayward deals might include:

- Sixers with Harris... Gordon a better fit with Harden, Embiid, Maxey and makes less.
- Something around Buddy Hield or Brogdon (1 less year).
- DLo for Gordon... one less year... Gordon a better fit with new Wolves.
- SA with McBuckets and Richardson... IDK they have infinity cap space and Hayward might be a good vet to mix in as a reclamation project.
- Maybe Detroit for Kelly and someone... only if they completely strike out on cap space stuff and we likely have to put an asset in.

Handlogten's Heros said:

I do think you could flip Hayward elsewhere. Hayward the player I actually would love to have... even if his health isn't great... Hayward the person with the baggage would be a tough sell.

His dollar amount is high but he's still good when healthy... and its only for two years. Some flip Hayward deals might include:

- Sixers with Harris... Gordon a better fit with Harden, Embiid, Maxey and makes less.
- Something around Buddy Hield or Brogdon (1 less year).
- DLo for Gordon... one less year... Gordon a better fit with new Wolves.
- SA with McBuckets and Richardson... IDK they have infinity cap space and Hayward might be a good vet to mix in as a reclamation project.
- Maybe Detroit for Kelly and someone... only if they completely strike out on cap space stuff and we likely have to put an asset in.

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Regarding Hayward the player, I know people are down on Evan Fournier, but to me they seem like their games are almost identical. Maybe I haven't watched him enough, and Fournier is more of a 2/3, while Hayward now can be more of a 3/4, but it seems like if someone is looking for Hayward the player and without the baggage, that you may get a lot of traction out of Fournier, plus letting Rudy have a buddy.

infection said:

Regarding Hayward the player, I know people are down on Evan Fournier, but to me they seem like their games are almost identical. Maybe I haven't watched him enough, and Fournier is more of a 2/3, while Hayward now can be more of a 3/4, but it seems like if someone is looking for Hayward the player and without the baggage, that you may get a lot of traction out of Fournier, plus letting Rudy have a buddy.

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I think Gordon is a much better player. He's a much better fit for what we need as a secondary creator, ball mover, etc.

Evan's defense is a real issue and if you were keeping Rudy then maybe you do a Conley for Fournier type deal I guess and maybe the size helps.

I'm not sure what to think about him right now. The Kemba Fournier backcourt was so bad all his on/off numbers are really bad for the year. In the scenario we are looking at we have traded Rudy so the friendship doesn't matter. If the Knicks wanted to do conley for Evan (no idea the motivation on their side) then sure... ain't the worst thing ever.

I really think the Conley deal is with Washington and saw an athletic article where a beat guy was asked about him as a target to be a stop gap option for them. Ish Smith and Raul Neto were their pgs. So yeah... get KCP and Deni for Conley. I think its a feasible deal. I'm sure the Knicks would send you Fournier in a three team deal where we route KCP (expiring) and Rudy Gay for Fournier. Opens up some cap space for them in 2023. They might even kick over a second or Deuce McBride if you need to grease the wheels for Washington. No idea how much they value Deni but I think he could be an amazing super glue player... a slight bump up in his three point percentage and he's there.

Donovan
Evan
Deni - We all know Royce would start here... but Deni is going to be better on both sides of the ball.
Bojan
Rudy

Royce off the bench

Handlogten's Heros said:

I do think you could flip Hayward elsewhere. Hayward the player I actually would love to have... even if his health isn't great... Hayward the person with the baggage would be a tough sell.

His dollar amount is high but he's still good when healthy... and its only for two years. Some flip Hayward deals might include:

- Sixers with Harris... Gordon a better fit with Harden, Embiid, Maxey and makes less.
- Something around Buddy Hield or Brogdon (1 less year).
- DLo for Gordon... one less year... Gordon a better fit with new Wolves.
- SA with McBuckets and Richardson... IDK they have infinity cap space and Hayward might be a good vet to mix in as a reclamation project.
- Maybe Detroit for Kelly and someone... only if they completely strike out on cap space stuff and we likely have to put an asset in.

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I think Indiana would make the most sense. Maybe they want Hayward because he can help that team in a position of need. Also, although he has a big contract, like you said, there's only 2 years left. Brogdon and TJ McConnel combine to make Hayward money the next two years plus they are owed close to $30 in a year that Hayward is gone.

LoPo said:

I think Indiana would make the most sense. Maybe they want Hayward because he can help that team in a position of need. Also, although he has a big contract, like you said, there's only 2 years left. Brogdon and TJ McConnel combine to make Hayward money the next two years plus they are owed close to $30 in a year that Hayward is gone.

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I think Malcolm has three years left to Gordon's two... they also don't have to match salary as they are way under the cap. A three team deal makes a lot of sense... in part because I think Indiana would like to get off of Malcolm's salary and I don't think Hornets would have any interest in him.

Indiana won't use all their cap space on free agents so taking in an extra 8-9M isn't a huge deal and we could reward them for it (maybe with a Charlotte pick).

Handlogten's Heros said:

I think Malcolm has three years left to Gordon's two... they also don't have to match salary as they are way under the cap. A three team deal makes a lot of sense... in part because I think Indiana would like to get off of Malcolm's salary and I don't think Hornets would have any interest in him.

Indiana won't use all their cap space on free agents so taking in an extra 8-9M isn't a huge deal and we could reward them for it (maybe with a Charlotte pick).

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All true here.

I just think Indiana would be on board with a Hayward deal if we took Brogdon and McConnell. If they are providing financially relief and giving back the better player, I think they would want more in return.

But if we did some three way deal where we got three 1sts from Charlotte, PJ Washington, Brogdon, $10 million in savings for Rudy, that would be hard to pass up...

I know there are a few possible destinations to send Gobert, but I’m still sweet on this haul from GS.

Some may prefer to swap Wiseman in for Kuminga or Moody, but I’m inclined to bring back Whiteside off the bench and start Dok. (I’m wary to call Dok a bust just yet, but injuries have been an issue).

Thoughts?

Brogdon would be good if he can stay healthy. He can play on or off the ball and defend 1 - 3.

In what universe can Bogey come back. We need a completely different type of player in his spot and in his minutes….

BENTLEY said:

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I know there are a few possible destinations to send Gobert, but I’m still sweet on this haul from GS.

Some may prefer to swap Wiseman in for Kuminga or Moody, but I’m inclined to bring back Whiteside off the bench and start Dok. (I’m wary to call Dok a bust just yet, but injuries have been an issue).

Thoughts?

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I’m really curious as to what Wiggins value is. If we are going to flip a Hayward or a Wiggins I’m sure Wiggins has more value on the market. I also believe the combo of wiseman moody or kuminga may be better than pj Washington and a couple picks. We will need to attach another player because the salaries of wiseman Wiggins and kuminga is quite a bit more than goberts salary.


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Also what is the market for bogie? I love the Conley to Wizards deal.

Still wondering what others think we could flip Wiggins for in a potential deal with GS.


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No chance WAS sends out Deni imo.