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The What Can We Get For Bogey Thread

Handlogten's Heros said:
I think we have this misconception on Fournier... that because he's taller than Mike he's a better defender. He isn't. The Knicks were atrocious defensively when he was on the floor.
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Might look at little different if Fournier was tethered to Gobert for the past two seasons. Mike is going to be 35 next year and just got brutalized in the playoffs when teams targeted him. Of course I want Fournier instead of him defensively.

And am I crazy, or did people freak out when I suggested that Smart for Bogey was a good trade because we'd be too short. I guess size matters now.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'd rather have Bogey than Fournier in the mix you suggested. I think Reddish is poop... if he was a good defender I think Thibs would have played him... maybe he can resurrect his career but he's not one I'd want to bet big on.
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That's not the decision. Bogey is for PJ. Reddish is a complete wildcard, but just to show you how useful that logic is....why did Thibs play Fournier and make him the primary wing defender on that team?

Conley is dust, we should move him now before we can't.
 
KqWIN said:
Might look at little different if Fournier was tethered to Gobert for the past two seasons. Mike is going to be 35 next year and just got brutalized in the playoffs when teams targeted him. Of course I want Fournier instead of him defensively.

And am I crazy, or did people freak out when I suggested that Smart for Bogey was a good trade because we'd be too short. I guess size matters now.
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I wasn't concerned about size at all... shooting yes.

On Mike you are preaching to the choir... just for fun I looked up small guards and when they fell off a cliff... and most didn't quite make it to where Mike is, but if they did they fell off a cliff right where he is on the timeline. I just don't think Fournier is it.
 
His value is way down as an expiring. I could see a deadline deal to a contender for a late pick or a couple seconds.
 
KqWIN said:
That's not the decision. Bogey is for PJ. Reddish is a complete wildcard, but just to show you how useful that logic is....why did Thibs play Fournier and make him the primary wing defender on that team?

Conley is dust, we should move him now before we can't.
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I think because they paid him like 70M and he is a productive offensive player... I think Reddish might be trash on both ends and I don't think he has a good attitude about things.

The other defender he had was Kemba at first then AB... not sure he was using Fournier as the shut down guy. Go look at Fourniers on/off splits for the Boston playoff series and his last Orlando playoff series.

I think Conley is toast but I think we can do much better than Fournier if we move him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I wasn't concerned about size at all... shooting yes.

On Mike you are preaching to the choir... just for fun I looked up small guards and when they fell off a cliff... and most didn't quite make it to where Mike is, but if they did they fell off a cliff right where he is on the timeline. I just don't think Fournier is it.
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Right, but I don't think you're going to find a good deal for Mike. I'm not a huge proponent of Founier, but that's really what you're going to get for him. All you can really hope for is an "eye of the beholder" type trade, which really means a player that is on a sus contract. I think Fournier has his problems, but I'd still probably rather have him next to Donovan than Conley the next two years. Reddish is just a sprinkle of added incentive.

I'm all ears if you actually think we can get value out of Conley, but to me he's a clear negative contract and we can only expect clear negative value coming back. Mike is at a point in his career where he's a decent PnR player, good spot up shooter, but can't defend or beat players off the dribble by himself anymore. His issues will get magnified in the playoffs and logically get worse with age. He's really a premium backup PG type but getting paid $20+ for age 35 and 36. Second year isn't all guaranteed, but still a heavy chunk of change. I'm definitely taking Reddish and Fournier over the next two years. I have ZERO desire to continuously run back something that's a proven failure.
 
KqWIN said:
Right, but I don't think you're going to find a good deal for Mike. I'm not a huge proponent of Founier, but that's really what you're going to get for him. All you can really hope for is an "eye of the beholder" type trade, which really means a player that is on a sus contract. I think Fournier has his problems, but I'd still probably rather have him next to Donovan than Conley the next two years. Reddish is just a sprinkle of added incentive.

I'm all ears if you actually think we can get value out of Conley, but to me he's a clear negative contract and we can only expect clear negative value coming back. Mike is at a point in his career where he's a decent PnR player, good spot up shooter, but can't defend or beat players off the dribble by himself anymore. His issues will get magnified in the playoffs and logically get worse with age. He's really a premium backup PG type but getting paid $20+ for age 35 and 36. Second year isn't all guaranteed, but still a heavy chunk of change.
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I think Washington would do KCP and Rui for Mike for sure... I've been pushing KCP and Deni but that might be a bit of wishful thinking. At the very very very least I think you could get KCP and Ish Smith... which at least clears the books while giving a plus defender.

I see Fournier as a negative contract as well. If we did go that route I'd try and snake Deuce McBride from them as the incentive. He played good defense in the league but his shooting was terrible... He murdered the G League though and is a worker. If all we could get is Fournier and Reddish I'd try to move JC for value and bring Mike off the bench.

Teams will take a chance that Conley is still good.. I think we will do alright in that trade.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think Washington would do KCP and Rui for Mike for sure... I've been pushing KCP and Deni but that might be a bit of wishful thinking. At the very very very least I think you could get KCP and Ish Smith... which at least clears the books while giving a plus defender.

I see Fournier as a negative contract as well. If we did go that route I'd try and snake Deuce McBride from them as the incentive. He played good defense in the league but his shooting was terrible... He murdered the G League though and is a worker. If all we could get is Fournier and Reddish I'd try to move JC for value and bring Mike off the bench.

Teams will take a chance that Conley is still good.. I think we will do alright in that trade.
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Yeah...we have different views on Conley's value. I think that WAS trade is laughably bad for them. Maybe not as bad in actuality, but you're not getting a team's improving former lottery pick that they still like for Conley. That's one of the types of players to trade for in the league. Adding in KCP who is a proven solid starter and useful on any team in the league is crazy. No shot in hell.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah...we have different views on Conley's value. I think that WAS trade is laughably bad for them. Maybe not as bad in actuality, but you're not getting a team's improving former lottery pick that they still like for Conley. That's one of the types of players to trade for in the league. Adding in KCP who is a proven solid starter and useful on any team in the league is crazy. No shot in hell.
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That's fine but they have a bunch of dudes they need to get PT at the forward spots and currently Ish Smith would be their starting pg. If Beal is back, which he should, Mike is a great pg to start alongside him. They may only be holding things together for a year before embarking on a rebuild so the non-guaranteed year isn't a huge deal.

Rui was on the block and Deni seems to fall in and out of favor with the coach. They loved Kuzma... Zinger gets some time at the 4 as well. They have the 10th pick where they may want to develop someone on the wing... like you can only have so many projects if you are trying to win. And if they keep Beal they are trying to win.

KCP is a solid starter... so is Mike. Laughable is strong. KCP and Ish is better than the Fournier deal and I think Wiz would jump on it.
 
We can no longer look at what was lost in the Conley trade in the past but what we can now gain for him. Let's try to salvage some good players and assets for him with this upcoming trade
 
Another Mike deal is with Detroit... when they miss out on Jalen (he ain't going there) they can trade Kelly Olynyk for Mike or KO and Cory Joseph. They have infinity cap space so no need to salary match.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Another Mike deal is with Detroit... when they miss out on Jalen (he ain't going there) they can trade Kelly Olynyk for Mike or KO and Cory Joseph. They have infinity cap space so no need to salary match.
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I dont see them doing that unless they are making other moves to improve the roster.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I dont see them doing that unless they are making other moves to improve the roster.
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Not sure how much more runway Weaver has but Mike would be a good mentor for Cade and maybe help Killian be good at basketball? I think from an information standpoint you'd want to see how well Cade does with other competent creators.
 
I could see Bojan being moved for a Josh Richardson or Justin Holiday-type player. Seems like fair value. Might even get a 2RP added.

Bulls and Blazers might have some interest in Bojan when they strike out on Jerami Grant.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I could see Bojan being moved for a Josh Richardson or Justin Holiday-type player. Seems like fair value. Might even get a 2RP added.

Bulls and Blazers might have some interest in Bojan when they strike out on Jerami Grant.
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Hardly. For that to be fair value you need two good 2nd round picks or 1 late first.
 
campaignist said:
His value is way down as an expiring. I could see a deadline deal to a contender for a late pick or a couple seconds.
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I don't think the fact that he's expiring will hurt his value much, if at all. I think we could get one or two rotation players for him.
 
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