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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Keefe said:
It’s not that black and white though. The Knicks top 6 protected is a faaaaar better pick than unprotected Heat picks. The Heat are an elite, well-run organization and I can’t imagine they are in the lottery in the next few years. That’s something the Knicks only aspire to.
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Maybe... the Knicks pick in 23 unprotected will be far better than the Heat but who knows beyond that. Adding protections in this type of deal can limit how many picks you end up getting if one falls in the protections. Also makes it so they can manipulate their record end of season if they have an injury. Limits the trade value of the picks as well.

Heat will end up not having any picks... we get the swaps and picks... they will be capped out. Jimmy is gonna be a negative contract in a year or two. After that you have Don and Bam and they will either be gone or on the bigger max deals, which will limit flexibility.

Heat have missed the playoffs 3 out of 8 years. Were able to retool because they had picks to offer and hit on the Herro and Bam picks.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Imagine if the Jazz got the Knicks unprotected '23 pick. The Knicks narrowly miss the playoffs and against all odds they get the #1 pick. Then the Jazz get the #2 pick and are the first team in NBA history to draft 1 and 2.
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this is what I proposed earlier. Look at the East... they will narrowly avoid the play in if they have a best case scenario season. I would say they are 50-50 to make the playoffs with Donovan.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Imagine if the Jazz got the Knicks unprotected '23 pick. The Knicks narrowly miss the playoffs and against all odds they get the #1 pick. Then the Jazz get the #2 pick and are the first team in NBA history to draft 1 and 2.
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and draft two 7 footers whose lateral movement metrics are off the charts.
 
The other thing that happens in that scenario is unprotected picks spike in value as teams start realizing the risk/reward... and what team holds the most unprotected picks?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Maybe... the Knicks pick in 23 unprotected will be far better than the Heat but who knows beyond that. Adding protections in this type of deal can limit how many picks you end up getting if one falls in the protections. Also makes it so they can manipulate their record end of season if they have an injury. Limits the trade value of the picks as well.

Heat will end up not having any picks... we get the swaps and picks... they will be capped out. Jimmy is gonna be a negative contract in a year or two. After that you have Don and Bam and they will either be gone or on the bigger max deals, which will limit flexibility.

Heat have missed the playoffs 3 out of 8 years. Were able to retool because they had picks to offer and hit on the Herro and Bam picks.
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Three out of eight. The Knicks have missed them 7 out of 8. Or maybe 6–I’m too lazy to look it up.

And while Don and Bam will be at the end of contracts, Miami would probably just try to retool around them (I would think) via free agency as Miami has actually been a strong FA destination. NY has not been.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Im preparing myself for disappointment.

We all know Donovan isnt worth 4 unprotected Knicks picks. We are talking about getting a top 10 package for a guy who is, at best, top 30.
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Don is a 3 time Western Conference all star. He's better than top 30. That would assume that, on average, every single team has at least one player better than Don. He's closer to top 20, higher if you factor in his age and star power as an asset.
 
Keefe said:
Three out of eight. The Knicks have missed them 7 out of 8. Or maybe 6–I’m too lazy to look it up.

And while Don and Bam will be at the end of contracts, Miami would probably just try to retool around them (I would think) via free agency as Miami has actually been a strong FA destination. NY has not been.
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No doubt, but if you protect some of those picks then you lose 1 or 2 of those 7 out of 8... maybe more. They also would project to be better with Brunson, RJ, Donovan... but Knicks gonna Knick.

I VERY much prefer to do a deal with the Knicks... but if they take away the upside for us they can eff off.
 
Keefe said:
Three out of eight. The Knicks have missed them 7 out of 8. Or maybe 6–I’m too lazy to look it up.

And while Don and Bam will be at the end of contracts, Miami would probably just try to retool around them (I would think) via free agency as Miami has actually been a strong FA destination. NY has not been.
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Keefe said:
They were the 4 seed two years ago without Donovan and Brunson.
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Make up your mind.


They were the 4 seed in the flukiest of seasons. When arenas were empty and two of their guys had outlier shooting seasons.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Make up your mind.


They were the 4 seed in the flukiest of seasons. When arenas were empty and two of their guys had outlier shooting seasons.
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My statements don’t contradict one another. Put another way, add Don to the Heat and they’re likely a surefire 22nd pick or worse—possibly 28th-30th.

Add Don to the Knicks and who knows. They’re still far more flawed, have a far ******** coach, and they’re the Knicks so I like our chances. But anything is possible.
 
Keefe said:
Three out of eight. The Knicks have missed them 7 out of 8. Or maybe 6–I’m too lazy to look it up.

And while Don and Bam will be at the end of contracts, Miami would probably just try to retool around them (I would think) via free agency as Miami has actually been a strong FA destination. NY has not been.
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Don and Bam can't be on the same team together. Designated rookie extension rule. Can't have two of those designated extension contracts on the same team. Same reason Ben Simmons has to be moved in order for Don to go to the Nets
 
jom2003 said:
Don and Bam can't be on the same team together. Designated rookie extension rule. Can't have two of those designated extension contracts on the same team. Same reason Ben Simmons has to be moved in order for Don to go to the Nets
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This is incorrect. You can have two on the same team as long as one of them was given the contract by the team and not traded.
 
Keefe said:
My statements don’t contradict one another. Put another way, add Don to the Heat and they’re likely a surefire 22nd pick or worse—possibly 28th-30th.

Add Don to the Knicks and who knows. They’re still far more flawed, have a far ******** coach, and they’re the Knicks so I like our chances. But anything is possible.
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So exactly what I ****ing said that they are 50-50 to be a playoff team. Then you replied with they were a 4 seed two years ago... yeah... I know... what were they last year?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
So exactly what I ****ing said that they are 50-50 to be a playoff team. Then you replied with they were a 4 seed two years ago... yeah... I know... what were they last year?
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You spoke in absolutes about the Knicks being no better than barely beating out the play-in because of the difficulty that is the East. I was simply playing devil’s advocate and saying you never know, referencing their 4th seed two seasons ago. Not sure why you’re being argumentative.

In short, we can’t get cute and overthink this. It’s the Knicks.
 
Maybe this was all a play to remind Mitchell that he’s not untouchable. Maybe trying to light a fire under his ***.
 
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