Hearsky
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Ilgauskas was an absolute stud. I would take Big Z from WK any day.
What is Walker Kessler's upside?
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That’s the thing so you don’t have to have the best vertical to be athletic.
fishonjazz
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A series of 'Athleticism Tests' are performed at the NBA pre-draft camp combine held annually. The 2022 combine was held from May 16-22, at Wintrust Arena and the Marriott Marquis in Chicago. See the list of the 2022 participants.
I would consider all those players who i know nothing else about to be more athletic than Kessler in the way I use the word "athletic"
Some consider things like timing and coordination to be signs of athleticism but I just dont think that way. A fat golfer has those things but i dont think of a fat golfer as athletic.
Vertical Jump - no step
| rank | height (inches) | player | position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 35.5 | E.J. Liddell | PF |
| 2 | 33.5 | Jalen Williams | SG |
| 3 | 33.5 | Christian Braun | SG |
| 4 | 32.5 | Justin Lewis | PF |
| 5 | 32.5 | Wendell Moore | SG |
| 6 | 32 | Max Christie | SG |
| 7 | 32 | Ochai Agbaji | SG |
| 8 | 31.5 | Kendall Brown | SF |
| 9 | 31 | Iverson Molinar | PG |
| 10 | 31 | Kennedy Chandler | PG |
Vertical Jump - max
| rank | height (inches) | player | position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 41.5 | Kennedy Chandler | PG |
| 2 | 41 | Kendall Brown | SF |
| 3 | 40 | Christian Braun | SG |
| 4 | 39 | Jalen Williams | SG |
| 5 | 39 | Ochai Agbaji | SG |
| 6 | 38.5 | Wendell Moore | SG |
| 7 | 38.5 | Terquavion Smith | SG |
| 8 | 38 | E.J. Liddell | PF |
| 9 | 38 | Iverson Molinar | PG |
| 10 | 38 | Dereon Seabron | SG |
3/4 Court Sprint
| rank | time (seconds) | player | position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 3.07 | Max Christie | SG |
| 2 | 3.07 | Gabriele Procida | SG-SF |
| 3 | 3.07 | Ryan Rollins | SG |
| 4 | 3.11 | Jalen Williams | SG |
| 5 | 3.12 | Dereon Seabron | SG |
| 6 | 3.13 | Ochai Agbaji | SG |
| 7 | 3.14 | Terquavion Smith | SG |
| 8 | 3.14 | Julian Champagnie | SF |
| 9 | 3.15 | Alondes Williams | SG |
| 10 | 3.16 | Christian Braun | SG |
Lane Agility Drill
| rank | time (seconds) | player | position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 10.30 | Julian Strawther | SF |
| 2 | 10.46 | Andrew Nembhard | PG |
| 3 | 10.58 | Jake LaRavia | PF |
| 4 | 10.63 | Terquavion Smith | SG |
| 5 | 10.73 | Kennedy Chandler | PG |
| 6 | 10.74 | Matthew Mayer | SF |
| 7 | 10.75 | David Roddy | PF |
| 8 | 10.77 | Ochai Agbaji | SG |
| 9 | 10.81 | Dyson Daniels | SG |
| 10 | 10.82 | Max Christie | SG |
Reactive Shuttle Run
| rank | time (seconds) | player | position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2.81 | Dyson Daniels | SG |
| 2 | 2.89 | Jake LaRavia | PF |
| 3 | 2.89 | Kennedy Chandler | PG |
| 4 | 2.90 | Moussa Diabate | C |
| 5 | 3.01 | Collin Gillespie | PG |
| 6 | 3.02 | Andrew Nembhard | PG |
| 7 | 3.02 | Max Christie | SG |
| 8 | 3.02 | Keon Ellis | SG |
| 9 | 3.02 | Leonard Miller | SF |
| 10 | 3.02 | Justin Lewis | PF |
I would consider all those players who i know nothing else about to be more athletic than Kessler in the way I use the word "athletic"
Some consider things like timing and coordination to be signs of athleticism but I just dont think that way. A fat golfer has those things but i dont think of a fat golfer as athletic.
fishonjazz
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Ya, the way i look at athleticism in regard to the nba is based mostly off of speed and leaping ability. kessler isn't high on my list of nba athletes in those two categories. therefore i dont think of him as very athletic in comparison to his fellow nba peers.
Thats why its subjective. you probably look at other attributes to measure athleticism and think kessler is extremely athletic. We just define athletic differently.
Release the Kraken
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He was big and strong, I’ll give him that much.
fishonjazz
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And very skilled. Great hands, great touch, great feel for the game, good footwork and body positioning. ambidextrious too. High BBIQ. Good timing to block/alter shots. (He was an all star twice. I hope Kessler ends up being an allstar)He was big and strong, I’ll give him that much.
Hearsky
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This. He had bad feet that slowed his career down. His stats didn't reflect his effectiveness.
I know it's really early into his career, but do you have a player comp for Kessler yet?
Handlogten's Heros
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So I think the future at center is to platoon a few different types of bigs unless you have an absolute all star. On a championship level team I think Kessler is the rim protector traditional big type for 20-25 minutes. You’d mix in a shooting 5 and maybe a guy that’s more switchable that can pose as a 5 and play with the other guys. I think KO, Kessler, Vando might be the center/big trio you will see on some contender… and then they load up on premium talent on the wing/perimeter.
I could see Walker getting 30+ minutes and being similar to Poeltl. Maybe better offensively and maybe slightly worse defensively. He’s been solid out the gate so maybe there is even more there.
I could see Walker getting 30+ minutes and being similar to Poeltl. Maybe better offensively and maybe slightly worse defensively. He’s been solid out the gate so maybe there is even more there.
Tremendous Upside
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IMO Kessler is a bit of a throwback (as far as true rotation bigs go). He's strictly a rolling, non-shooting big who protects the rim, but not the pogo stick type you find finishing alley oops around the league. Guys with his profile are rarely starters these days.
At some point he's gonna have to develop the ability to make short jump shots.
It might be good to notice that Walker Kessler in fact did not take part in those tests. He was measured for height, weight etc, but due to some minor injury (I don't anymore recall what it was) he did not take part in any of the tests you linked results for.
Based on experiences with Lauri I would say that any form-changing programs should be banned. Bulking up is not something to pursue unless it is the natural progression for Kessler. Kessler has excellent timing with his blocks and any forced changes will likely affect his timing as well as more body-wight will expose to various injuries. I would say with all big men that patience is a virtue; it just takes a longer time for them to build up into a sustainable form.
Udidthizz
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Kessler is leading Jazz rotation players in win shares/48 minutes (only Azebuike and Potter are higher), so he's already making a clear impact. Rookies often feel the need to prove themselves and end up trying to do too much to make an impression. Kessler is smart and doesn't do that, he plays the way he knows and it's helping the Jazz already. Even if this is all he is, he will be a solid rotation center for 10 years. But I'm irrationally optimistic and think he will expand his offensive game as he grows more accustomed to the NBA and gains confidence. I really wouldn't be surprised if he adds a 3 point shot at some point (even if it won't necessarily be pretty or great).
Now you are going overboard. He isn't unathletic like some people claim but he also isn't super athletic like you are claiming. He is a solid athlete and that is just fine for how big he is.
Release the Kraken
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I wasn’t trying to suggest that he or Poetl or Miller were bad players, only bad comparisons IMO to the Kessler skill set. None of those guys were/are rim protectors, Kessler is a rim protector on top of being a good offensive player. For comparison, Ilgauskus, by far the most accomplished of the three, averaged 1.6 blocks playing 27.2 minutes a game whereas Kessler in his very first season is averaging 1.7 blocks playing 14.9 minutes a game.
Kessler is a bit of a unicorn in that as a rookie he is already highly skilled on both sides of the ball. For comparison, Kessler’s 2 pt % is .743 whereas Ilgauskus’ averaged .478 for his career with his best 2 pt % in his rookie year at .519.
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Tremendous Upside
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Kessler scores from putbacks and spoon fed dunks. Let's not go overboard here. I like the kid a lot, but as far as individual offensive skills go, he's a complete non factor at this point. He has no usable low post moves to speak of, which is something of a concern because he lives in the paint. That will have to improve, and I trust it will. He's smart and a student of the game.
As for the athleticism debate... Kessler is the exact same height as Markkanen, but I guess it's safe to say he can't dunk from the FT line like Lauri can, even though Kessler is a lot longer. I wouldn't call Markkanen a super athlete - he's good but not great. Kessler is OK, but really nothing special on that front. His best attributes are his timing, smarts and length.
I agree that he'll easily have 10+ year NBA career if he wants it though.
To be fair to Ilgauskas he took more shots outside 3 feet as well. Kessler has been feasting on layups, dunks, and put-backs. That will automatically drive your FG% up. It will likely dip once he starts taking 5 foot hook shots or 12 foot contested jumpers.
To be fair to Kessler we haven't really asked him to do anything more than put-backs or dunks. We don't pass him the ball with his back to the basket at all, so we really don't know what he could do with it. That might be because he simply cannot do anything with it and the team knows that, or by design as it isn't his primary function when he is on the floor.
There is a little more in this than just put-backs, although put-backs and dunks are still 80% of his highlights, but he has a few nice jumpers and some nice shots from 5-8 feet in, including a couple of lefty hooks, and some reasonably nice 3 pt shots in there. I wish we would let him get the ball down low back to the basket so we can see exactly what he could do with it, even if he fails miserably. He needs the touches and chances to develop some confidence.
Release the Kraken
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You’re right about him not being featured in the offense - not convinced that that equates to no post game. He did have some huge offensive games in college. We’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg folks a lot more to his game that because he is a rookie we have yet to flesh out.
As Tony Jones said, the kid is athletic and I would add excellent fundamentals. I am mostly impressed with his hands and footwork but a strong case could be made for his reflexes, timing agility and quickness. As much as many hate to admit it, I think his upside is a lot closer to Rudy Gobert than any other name thrown out there.