Will Markkanen re-sign?

David Hume said:

Tis the question back in the mind of all true JazzFanz: Will Markkanen re-sign? For all premature rebuilds come to naught should he decide to render services elsewhere. I leave the discussion in the hands of our sane JazzFanz adherents, who can enlighten us.

Click to expand...

Thou shall not question the future, for the variables are many and the road ahead is blurred.

However while true loyalty of a NBA man is commonly measured by the weight of his purse, this one might be different. While he sees the value of a heavy bag, he also loveth winning in the game of basketball, alas, might choose the road of most clarity.

HermanG said:

Thou shall not question the future, for the variables are many and the road ahead is blurred.

However while true loyalty of a NBA man is commonly measured by the weight of his purse, this one might be different. While he sees the value of a heavy bag, he also loveth winning in the game of basketball, alas, might choose the road of most clarity.

Click to expand...

This is excellent reasoning, Sir HermanG! Eloquent, too!

LogGrad98 said:

Methinks thou dost not poll enough. Indeed this matter of discourse would be of greater weight should it also be accompanied by a categorized referendum inquiring as to the detailed reflections of the fan-dom as a whole.

Click to expand...

Thy poll is now with us, Sir LogGrad 98. Mark your abductions, let us ponder and read what thou and others have as pronouncements.

David Hume said:

Thy poll is now with us, Sir LogGrad 98. Mark your abductions, let us ponder and read what thou and others have as pronouncements.

Click to expand...

Here here!

David Hume said:

Thy poll is now with us, Sir LogGrad 98. Mark your abductions, let us ponder and read what thou and others have as pronouncements.

Click to expand...

It gives me the highest gratification, and I beg you to accept my most cordial and sincere thanks, good Sir Hume.

Korisfani said:

Well, you and others have called to lose as much as possible and do everything to achieve that. I'm sure Lauri gets how the NBA works (and he's said that as well), but with eight years of losing he would have no reason to even think about the Jazz (supposing that actually contending teams have the cap space etc. to offer him).

Click to expand...

No we haven't called to lose as much as possible and do everything to achieve it. What we have called for is selling off the vets that have no future here and clearing the guard log jam so we can see what our younger guys can do so we have a better idea of what direction to go in the draft and future free agency. We should be building for the long term and not some fantasy short term playoff run. Now if you really want to lose Lauri then you build a vet laden team right now that will compete for a lower playoff seed over the next few years but has no actual championship potential.

Ron Mexico said:

In the next 2 years. If our rebuilds makes us a losing team next year that will greatly impact his desire to stay. I am sure he doesn't want to be apart of a longer-term rebuilding team in his prime.

Click to expand...

There is huge difference between a losing team that is acquiring talent and still in the tear down process and a losing team that has acquired talent and is on the upswing building something. We would be in that second group and as long as the forward progress is clear and he has pieces around him that translate to be really good moving forward then he isn't going anywhere. At what point are some of you going to learn your lesson that just being a playoff team doesn't matter. That doesn't keep guys happy. Deron Williams got frustrated because we have clearly maxed out. Hayward wanted out because he didn't think he had the pieces around him to compete. Mitchell turned into an issue because we had clearly maxed out. You are just as likely to lose a guy by going all in to early and building a team with its upside capped as you are trying to rebuild around a guy. There is no reason to believe that if we sell off most of the vets now and just focus on a youth movement and the draft this season that we can't be right back on the upswing next year. Does that mean that we would be a guaranteed playoff team next year? Not by any means but it gives us the ability to put a core group that can grow together and figuring out what type of pieces we need to acquire to take it to that next level.

sip said:

There is huge difference between a losing team that is acquiring talent and still in the tear down process and a losing team that has acquired talent and is on the upswing building something. We would be in that second group and as long as the forward progress is clear and he has pieces around him that translate to be really good moving forward then he isn't going anywhere.

Click to expand...

Lauri is tired of being on a team that is losing and has no future and makes him sit out games because of imaginary injuries; he had enough of all that with the Bulls. If Jazz decide to tank this and next season by reigning in Lauri, you might as well kiss him goodbye already now.

Lauri isn't looking for the biggest purse. He wants to be in a team that plans to win, in a city where he and his family feel comfortable. Lauri sure seems to love SLC as a city, and he has so far loved the way Jazz is playing; the team has so far exceeded every and all expectations, and that is something Lauri loves.

sip said:

There is huge difference between a losing team that is acquiring talent and still in the tear down process and a losing team that has acquired talent and is on the upswing building something. We would be in that second group and as long as the forward progress is clear and he has pieces around him that translate to be really good moving forward then he isn't going anywhere. At what point are some of you going to learn your lesson that just being a playoff team doesn't matter. That doesn't keep guys happy. Deron Williams got frustrated because we have clearly maxed out. Hayward wanted out because he didn't think he had the pieces around him to compete. Mitchell turned into an issue because we had clearly maxed out. You are just as likely to lose a guy by going all in to early and building a team with its upside capped as you are trying to rebuild around a guy. There is no reason to believe that if we sell off most of the vets now and just focus on a youth movement and the draft this season that we can't be right back on the upswing next year. Does that mean that we would be a guaranteed playoff team next year? Not by any means but it gives us the ability to put a core group that can grow together and figuring out what type of pieces we need to acquire to take it to that next level.

Click to expand...

Facts. Bulls went all in to build around Lavine. Derozan and Vucevic won't cut it and the team lost assets and ****ed with Lauri and Wendell Carter. This team again has a better developmental staff and it has DA to build the team and such a promising pop-protegee to run the future. Instead of looking like a certain threadmill like Bulls I am confident this team first makes the post-season once or twice under this current Lauri's contract and then might even Become a contender if and when we hit even one of these 1sts. Depending on Lauri and Kessler and others progress it might need no generational talent - just some rookie with high upside. Wemba or Scoot would be perfect but even without those kinda hits we are going to have a real chance for at least WC finals in few seasons. And before that - some post-season run. Our frontcourt is set and the rebuild just started. It looks Good.

sip said:

No we haven't called to lose as much as possible and do everything to achieve it.

Click to expand...

Some others might have had more nuance. But you have consistently called to lose as much as possible, at every turn.

You have hoped that Conley's injury doesn't heal, you've been giddy to have Lauri injured.

At least don't ******** everyone about what you actually think. And yeah, tanking can be a strategy and it can be argued for. But it has costs as well. (And wishing injuries on your own players... maaannnn)

sip said:

I'm definitely not looking forward to him coming back. Right now we have positioned ourselves perfectly over the last few weeks for the tank and the next 7 games is a really rough stretch that could set us up perfectly to lock in that 6-8 draft range.

Click to expand...

sip said:

Damn you warriors for messing with our tank. This is an important game to lose.

Click to expand...

sip said:

Haha, not even close. We aren't tanking for 1 or 2 but we are right there to get into that 6-8 range.

Click to expand...

sip said:

**** winning games. I want to win championships!

Click to expand...

sip said:

We are so close to being firmly in the tank. There are 5 teams below us in the standings that want to win games and I might even throw the thunder in there as well. If we just play this right we could be sitting in the bottom 7 by the end of the month.

Click to expand...

sip said:

Yeah we may actually be better off for the tank by keeping these guys but damn I really want to see them gone.

Click to expand...

sip said:

Another thing to take into account is that Lauri hasn't had his yearly minor injury yet. At some point it will probably happen and we lose him for a few weeks. If that happens then the tank can go into full overdrive.

Click to expand...

sip said:

Even though I am firmly in the pro tank camp

Click to expand...

sip said:

There is no reason to believe that if we sell off most of the vets now and just focus on a youth movement and the draft this season that we can't be right back on the upswing next year. Does that mean that we would be a guaranteed playoff team next year? Not by any means but it gives us the ability to put a core group that can grow together and figuring out what type of pieces we need to acquire to take it to that next level.

Click to expand...

If you focus on the youth and next season are playing all the rookies and second-year players major minutes, it's a guaranteed losing, non-playoff season.

Then you're into the last year of Lauri's contract. Sure, if everything goes perfectly and all the young guys develop by leaps and bounds, then you bring in the guys to get you over the hump through and FA and with your assets. Even if that happens, there's 40 games in which the team has to prove it's a contender and winning team. Otherwise, you have to start looking at trading Lauri somewhere so he doesn't leave for nothing. A lot of pressure in those 40 games for a new-ish squad to get it going right away.

Who's Will Markkanen?

Does Lauri have a brother?

Korisfani said:

If you focus on the youth and next season are playing all the rookies and second-year players major minutes, it's a guaranteed losing, non-playoff season.

Click to expand...

Wait, do you think that sexton, beasley, vanderbilt, naw, tht, and markennan will be second year players next season? If so, you are gonna need to do some research. (then you have players added in free agency and players we get back in the trades from conley, KO, gay. So in addition to the dudes I already named you have even more players with more than 2 years experience in the rotation) Even if we trade all the old dudes we might not have ANY second year players or rookies in the rotation other than kessler.

Swuul said:

Lauri is tired of being on a team that is losing and has no future and makes him sit out games because of imaginary injuries; he had enough of all that with the Bulls. If Jazz decide to tank this and next season by reigning in Lauri, you might as well kiss him goodbye already now.

Lauri isn't looking for the biggest purse. He wants to be in a team that plans to win, in a city where he and his family feel comfortable. Lauri sure seems to love SLC as a city, and he has so far loved the way Jazz is playing; the team has so far exceeded every and all expectations, and that is something Lauri loves.

Click to expand...

Stop acting like you actually know what Lauri wants.

fishonjazz said:

Wait, do you think that sexton, beasley, vanderbilt, naw, tht, and markennan will be second year players next season? If so, you are gonna need to do some research. (then you have players added in free agency and players we get back in the trades from conley, KO, gay. So in addition to the dudes I already named you have even more players with more than 2 years experience in the rotation) Even if we trade all the old dudes we might not have ANY second year players or rookies in the rotation other than kessler.

Click to expand...

No.

But you'll have Kessler and Agbaji and at least two rookie playing major minutes - if that's the strategy. If you're tanking to get to pick higher and overall go with youth, then you obviously play them. If not, what's the point? Not playing anyone but Kessler next year and suddenly getting new vets to replace all the youth... that's just... what??

You blow up this season completely to get a lottery pick and then not even have them in the rotation. Insane.

And the tanking crowd (like sip) want to get back players that help this year's team lose. Those players won't magically then be winning players next year. If you're trading away Conley etc. for players that help you instantly, then obviously that's not tanking - quite the opposite.

And anyone added in free agency can't swallow up the minutes that are supposed to be at least available to the youth. Now, who's going to come to Utah, to play on a young, losing team, playing 22 minutes?

Korisfani said:

Some others might have had more nuance. But you have consistently called to lose as much as possible, at every turn.

You have hoped that Conley's injury doesn't heal, you've been giddy to have Lauri injured.

At least don't ******** everyone about what you actually think. And yeah, tanking can be a strategy and it can be argued for. But it has costs as well. (And wishing injuries on your own players... maaannnn)

Click to expand...

I love how you went out of your way to track down all those posts but not a single one mentions selling the farm and going for an all in tear it down tank. Anyone with a brain knows that it is better for us to get a better draft pick this year and every game that a team around us in the standings wins and we lose is in the best interest of this team. Some people are blind though and love being prisoner of the moment which you seem to be really good at. The only place that leads to is mediocrity.

Korisfani said:

No.

But you'll have Kessler and Agbaji and at least two rookie playing major minutes - if that's the strategy. If you're tanking to get to pick higher and overall go with youth, then you obviously play them. If not, what's the point? Not playing anyone but Kessler next year and suddenly getting new vets to replace all the youth... that's just... what??

You blow up this season completely to get a lottery pick and then not even have them in the rotation. Insane.

And the tanking crowd (like sip) want to get back players that help this year's team lose. Those players won't magically then be winning players next year. If you're trading away Conley etc. for players that help you instantly, then obviously that's not tanking - quite the opposite.

And anyone added in free agency can't swallow up the minutes that are supposed to be at least available to the youth. Now, who's going to come to Utah, to play on a young, losing team, playing 22 minutes?

Click to expand...

I haven't seen much discussion on tanking NEXT season. Next season ochai might barely play. I have no idea what free agents we will acquire or what trades will be made. I literally have no idea what next seasons roster will look like. Playing vets isnt a problem for the tankers. Tankers are fine with vets like sexton, beasley, vando, and lauri playing. its the old dudes who wont contribute in few years playing big minutes that get the most complaints.

Im hoping to comfortably make the playoffs next season off the backs of youngish players and do some damage. Then win a title in 3 - 5 years in Lauris prime while he is under a max contract with the jazz. Thats my gameplan.

Korisfani said:

No.

But you'll have Kessler and Agbaji and at least two rookie playing major minutes - if that's the strategy. If you're tanking to get to pick higher and overall go with youth, then you obviously play them. If not, what's the point? Not playing anyone but Kessler next year and suddenly getting new vets to replace all the youth... that's just... what??

You blow up this season completely to get a lottery pick and then not even have them in the rotation. Insane.

And the tanking crowd (like sip) want to get back players that help this year's team lose. Those players won't magically then be winning players next year. If you're trading away Conley etc. for players that help you instantly, then obviously that's not tanking - quite the opposite.

And anyone added in free agency can't swallow up the minutes that are supposed to be at least available to the youth. Now, who's going to come to Utah, to play on a young, losing team, playing 22 minutes?

Click to expand...

Good lord you are so dramatic. We have already seen that a bunch of our young guys are very capable of providing solid minutes for us.

sip said:

I love how you went out of your way to track down all those posts but not a single one mentions selling the farm and going for an all in tear it down tank. Anyone with a brain knows that it is better for us to get a better draft pick this year and every game that a team around us in the standings wins and we lose is in the best interest of this team. Some people are blind though and love being prisoner of the moment which you seem to be really good at. The only place that leads to is mediocrity.

Click to expand...

Well, searching for tank* by sip took all of about three seconds. All of them call for losing as much as possible; even wishing for injuries. Which you said you've never said. You're calling for it right now in your message. So, which is it?

You can want the team to tank, to get good rookies and develop them - and then be contending in 5 years. Or you can want the team to be winning in three years with Markkanen. But you can't have both. Unless you pick young LeBron with whatever pick you have.

fishonjazz said:

I haven't seen much discussion on tanking NEXT season. Next season ochai might barely play. I have no idea what free agents we will acquire or what trades will be made. I literally have no idea what next seasons roster will look like. Playing vets isnt a problem for the tankers. Tankers are fine with vets like sexton, beasley, vando, and lauri playing. its the old dudes who wont contribute in few years playing big minutes that get the most complaints.

Im hoping to comfortably make the playoffs next season off the backs of youngish players and do some damage. Then win a title in 3 - 5 years in Lauris prime while he is under a max contract with the jazz. Thats my gameplan.

Click to expand...

Tanking this season and getting a bunch of young players might not mean quite tanking next season, but it definitely means a losing season and no playoffs. And yes, we don't know who's on the roster next year. But if it's not the all the young guys playing meaningful minutes, what on earth was the point of getting them? Why?

This year's team isn't going anywhere. Conley, KO etc. have given the young guys what they have to give. If there's value available, of course trade them. But again, that's not what we're talking about. It's people like sip wanting to lose as much as possible. That means getting losing players on the court, "load managing" Lauri or hoping he has a minor injury that keeps him out for a month. THAT recipe doesn't get you "comfortably in the playoffs" next season; it guarantees not making it.

And guess what, if a year from now the Jazz youth are 22-28 in January, all the same people will be calling for the team to tank in order to get to the lottery to keep the 1st pick.

sip said:

Good lord you are so dramatic. We have already seen that a bunch of our young guys are very capable of providing solid minutes for us.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. And a losing season already, even with massive, better-than-expected jumps from several guys. Hopefully the incoming rookie class can do the same and provide those solid minutes. Solid minutes from rookies all around doesn't get you in the playoffs.

Korisfani said:

THAT recipe doesn't get you "comfortably in the playoffs" next season; it guarantees not making it.

Click to expand...

Nothing guarantees not making the playoffs next season. Vegas had us winning 23.5 games this season. Almost every team in the league is in the hunt to make the playoffs right now. We have no idea who we add in the next off season. There are no guarantees. Winning as many games as possible right now also doesn't guarantee we will or wont make the playoffs next season. Winning now could actually decrease our chances of making the playoffs next season.