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Roster Building From Here - FA and Summer of 2023

Handlogten's Heros said:
They can cash in DFS for a first instead… I doubt they’d be in on sexton as Dinwiddie is already kinda dribble shoot happy pg. if they were I think straight up is the best you could hope for… sorry. A couple months of bad shooting doesn’t mean DFS stock drops. I bet we’d be adding a sweetener
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Hes been down all year. He regressed in Dallas already
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
That’s the Rob Pelinka Lebron GM method… get talent but get talent that builds on each other… not that just plays alongside. If you can get FVV and trade for Derozan I’m cool with that. You don’t need Dame and Derozan both out there getting cooked on defense.

I started the Dame to Utah parade… his most recent comments throw all sorts of cold water on that. Things can change but he seems more dug in than ever.
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Pelinka win a ring. None of these guys are Russ
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Pelinka win a ring. None of these guys are Russ
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they won a bubble ring by not doing the Pelinka Lebron method… then offloaded role playing three and D guys for a “more talented player”. Derozan has some similar flaws as Russ and we don’t have Lebron. We have to build a team that is better than the sun of its parts if they are going to be a contender. Cashing in teh picks for two guys that are best with the ball in their hands and are bad defenders ain’t it boss… especially since Derozan doesn’t space the floor.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
they won a bubble ring by not doing the Pelinka Lebron method… then offloaded role playing three and D guys for a “more talented player”. Derozan has some similar flaws as Russ and we don’t have Lebron. We have to build a team that is better than the sun of its parts if they are going to be a contender. Cashing in teh picks for two guys that are best with the ball in their hands and are bad defenders ain’t it boss… especially since Derozan doesn’t space the floor.
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Demar isn't that bad on D. You're way overstating it. Positive D Raptor
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Demar isn't that bad on D. You're way overstating it. Positive D Raptor
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He’s bad. Bulls worked when they had Lonzo… they have been poopy since he died. Dame is real bad on defense… Demar is regular bad. Derozan doesn’t space the floor… you will need to cash in a **** ton of picks and your cap flexibility for Dame. You need perfect fits around Dame Lauri Walker… Demar isn’t that. Sorry.
 
Sending our middle first and a pick swap from the Cavs in 4 years to the Bulls with an opt out s/t THT for Patrick Williams is something I would look at. THT is from the Windy city and we might lose him for nothing if we cannot facilitate him going home on deal better than he will get as a FA. Lonzo is ****ed and so are the Bulls without him. Dalen Terry is not the answer there either as is, so maybe we could get Terry instead if THT opts in and we move him for that amount.
Overall,I am doubtful that we do much in regards to going after any win now free agents that don't fit the young core timeline.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If you got Dame why get Derozan. I think Dame stays put… he seems like he is very much just gonna die on the loyalty hill in Portland. Derozan, Beal, Lavine… are all guys I think will be available this offseason.
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Would be hilarious af if Lavine ends up here with Lauri and Kris Dunn and wins something... :D Of course he will not. He is overpaid and has questionable decision making in the clutch. Then again coach Hardy might be one of those coaches that could get him over to the next level. Bulls fans have been wishing he was used a bit more as an off-ball threat and as he can be great on-ball, with a pass-first guard Lauri and Lavine could be murdering defenses. I don't see this happening. But if it did in some weird world I would have SO much fan with the expense of Bulls fans.
 
Jazz need to remain patient and not make a bad FA signing just to sign a player. If the Jazz can hit on 2 of the 3 picks this year the potential of losing next year's pick isn't as bad. Another factor is not signing a guy who will make it difficult to re=sign our young core. Our core is young so signing a guy who is good now but might be washed in two or three years is not a wise decision.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
He’s bad. Bulls worked when they had Lonzo… they have been poopy since he died. Dame is real bad on defense… Demar is regular bad. Derozan doesn’t space the floor… you will need to cash in a **** ton of picks and your cap flexibility for Dame. You need perfect fits around Dame Lauri Walker… Demar isn’t that. Sorry.
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Nah, you definitely don't. Demar would be great next to Lauri and Dame. He's incredibly smart and versatile.
 
framer said:
Phil Johnson would have told you that is impossible to build a contending team with players all of the same age, especially younger guys. Eventually all of the younger guys are trying to establish themselves more than the "team identity." Kinda like Summer League writ large. If you have a mix of young and old, the player hierarchies are more easily established and players aren't stepping on one another. Think old school OKC and current Memphis.

I'm not sure I believe it, but Phil Johnson knew more about basketball than me.
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The other side of this argument is that older players can get disgruntled if they are placed in a secondary role. I think the key is finding your stars and the filling your roster with guys who know their roles and realize they are not stars but role players. It is a coach's main job is to manage the egos of their players. Phil was successful at this more than other coaches and that is a major reason why he won championships.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
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Nah, you definitely don't. Demar would be great next to Lauri and Dame. He's incredibly smart and versatile.
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Offense is a secondary concern on that arrangement. Ignoring that he gets picked at in the playoffs and pairing him with another target is an issue. If we want to go this route I’d try and sign FVV and use some mid assets to acquire derozan… using a pile of assets to get dame and then the other mid assets to get derozan just is not something I’d expect to work at the highest levels… and if you are pushing all in then that is the bar.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If you got Dame why get Derozan.
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Why not get more talent? You get derozan because he is better than ochai. You get Derozan because you would be going all in to win a championship

Would be like the warriors saying "we got steph and klay, why get durant?" Cause he is awesome at basketball that is why.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
DFS has been struggling hard in Brooklyn. He may be a product of playing with a super-star. A guy who doesnt need the ball, but does need very clean looks. It creates an interesting buy low for a guy who was considered one of the better "pure" 3&D players in the NBA.

Could the Jazz trade Sexton for DFS + PHX 2023 1st? IF you can do that and sign FVV you can go into 2023/2024 with a rotation of:

FVV/THT
Ochai/Clarkson
DFS/Simone
Lauri
Kessler/KO

You'd also almost certainly package or move some combination of the 4 picks in 2023 for improved depth, moving up the draft, or moving out the draft into another draft.

I would say that trade makes sense for both teams as Utah needs wing defenders and Brooklyn needs some kind of PG prospect and they have an abundance of wing defenders.
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This one I like. Not the Dame one, that one is too much "win now" and I'm not sure Kessler and Ochai will hit their ceilings before Dame and DeRozan wheels start falling off. So the age mesh is a bit off in that one.

But add FVV and DFS to what we run now and it looks like a SUPER solid core thats gonna be playoff bound as is and could be very attractive to any championship aspiring star who could come in and be #1 or #1a or whatever. It also enables us to hold on to most of our assets and builds up on our cap space instead, leaving our max contract slots open for grabs.
 
How good do you think Lauri is? I’m surprised to be reading comments that his play should alter the Jazz timeline. Are people viewing him as a legit #1 option? Do you see him as someone who could be a top 10 player in the league?
 
fishonjazz said:
Why not get more talent? You get derozan because he is better than ochai. You get Derozan because you would be going all in to win a championship

Would be like the warriors saying "we got steph and klay, why get durant?" Cause he is awesome at basketball that is why.
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Not really because KD is a great two way player that can score better in iso than Klay and Steph… and all three space the floor about as well as you could hope.

Demar doesn’t shoot threes and isn’t a good defender. Dame is not a good defender and plays with the ball in his hand a lot. I’m fine with getting Demar or Dame with some of our assets but going all in on those guys is not smart. FVV is a good defender and can likely do well in a third scorer type role… he can also be stolen away using just cap space. Dame will require 3-4 picks… Demar requires a couple picks… I’d rather not blow it all on a pairing that has some very obvious flaws.
 
Ujfanatic said:
How good do you think Lauri is? I’m surprised to be reading comments that his play should alter the Jazz timeline. Are people viewing him as a legit #1 option? Do you see him as someone who could be a top 10 player in the league?
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Lauri is a role player. HEAR ME OUT, HEAR ME OUT.

This season, his role is to be the main scoring threat (who still somehow takes only two shots more per 36 than Talen Horton-Tucker). He's doing a fine job. 9 to 5, lunch pail kinda guy. Happy to do whatever the team needs.

If we bring in a dude like Jaylen Brown who is obviously going to arrive with the expectation that he's the new #1 option, Lauri will go right back to being a 16ppg floor spacer. He won't complain. He's just gonna look at is as a new job description. No, he probably won't like it, but that's neither here nor there. He'll get right to work.

Nice guy, very good player, solid pro, absolutely zero alpha mentality.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Lauri is a role player. HEAR ME OUT, HEAR ME OUT.

This season, his role is to be the main scoring threat (who still somehow takes only two shots more per 36 than Talen Horton-Tucker). He's doing a fine job. 9 to 5, lunch pail kinda guy. Happy to do whatever the team needs.

If we bring in a dude like Jaylen Brown who is obviously going to arrive with the expectation that he's the new #1 option, Lauri will go right back to being a 16ppg floor spacer. He won't complain. He's just gonna look at is as a new job description. No, he probably won't like it, but that's neither here nor there. He'll get right to work.

Nice guy, very good player, solid pro, absolutely zero alpha mentality
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Lauri also has never had a year where he’s been expected to be the guy until this year. I think he’s pretty clearly developed some alpha this year, I don’t think that goes away just because we trade for someone
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Lauri is a role player. HEAR ME OUT, HEAR ME OUT.

This season, his role is to be the main scoring threat (who still somehow takes only two shots more per 36 than Talen Horton-Tucker). He's doing a fine job. 9 to 5, lunch pail kinda guy. Happy to do whatever the team needs.

If we bring in a dude like Jaylen Brown who is obviously going to arrive with the expectation that he's the new #1 option, Lauri will go right back to being a 16ppg floor spacer. He won't complain. He's just gonna look at is as a new job description. No, he probably won't like it, but that's neither here nor there. He'll get right to work.

Nice guy, very good player, solid pro, absolutely zero alpha mentality.
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Agree to disagree. Just because you add a 25 point scorer like brown doesn't mean you can't have Lauri also average 25.
I mean just look at the Celtics for example.
 
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