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2023 NBA Draft Megathread

Handlogten's Heros said:
What evidence do we have that he is on a deficit? He lost some weight over the summer but let’s not act like his body is dwindling away. Were his previous injuries during times where he was cutting?

It may be a factor but many dudes have credited losing weight with allowing them to stay healthy… shooting from the hip CP (went vegan and lost a few pounds) and Tim Duncan (dropped weight late in his career when his knees were not doing well).

Skinny people can get hurt too… doesn’t mean weight isn’t a contributing factor with guys like Zion. NO was concerned with his weight… guessing his diet is not ideal.
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I’m just saying that calorie deficit = worse recovery. That is a biological fact. Maybe he’s not dieting, but Saint’s line of thinking is logical and it makes sense.

It’s also impossible to say this why a guy did/didn’t get hurt because of xyz. We are all different, all NBA players are pretty much outliers to begin with, Zion is an outlier among outliers, and we don’t know the alternative. When Kawhi got injured I saw media head/ hot take bot was quick to say, “this is proof load management doesn’t work”. We really don’t know that because without load management things could be even worse with Kawhi. We can’t compare it to the scenario where he didn’t load manage. There’s all this criticism of modern sports medicine because NBA players seem to be getting more significant injuries, but I don’t believe for a second that we’ve gone backwards. There are other factors at play.

NBA players get injured all the time for all sorts of different reasons. Zion’s weight is probably part of the problem, but it’s overstated imo. I brought up skinny guys because it shows that not every injury situation is due to weight. There are skinny guys who can’t stay healthy and fat guys who never get hurt. There’s more than one factor at play. Just because us mere mortals feel better after losing a few lbs does not mean it’s the thing that would save Zion’s career.
 
KqWIN said:
I’m just saying that calorie deficit = worse recovery. That is a biological fact. Maybe he’s not dieting, but Saint’s line of thinking is logical and it makes sense.

It’s also impossible to say this why a guy did/didn’t get hurt because of xyz. We are all different, all NBA players are pretty much outliers to begin with, Zion is an outlier among outliers, and we don’t know the alternative. When Kawhi got injured I saw media head/ hot take bot was quick to say, “this is proof load management doesn’t work”. We really don’t know that because without load management things could be even worse with Kawhi. We can’t compare it to the scenario where he didn’t load manage. There’s all this criticism of modern sports medicine because NBA players seem to be getting more significant injuries, but I don’t believe for a second that we’ve gone backwards. There are other factors at play.

NBA players get injured all the time for all sorts of different reasons. Zion’s weight is probably part of the problem, but it’s overstated imo. I brought up skinny guys because it shows that not every injury situation is due to weight. There are skinny guys who can’t stay healthy and fat guys who never get hurt. There’s more than one factor at play. Just because us mere mortals feel better after losing a few lbs does not mean it’s the thing that would save Zion’s career.
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Ehhh… it’s something he could control unlike some of the other stuff… that is why his team and people in the media as well as fans bring it up. I would also say you could be at an energy balance instead of a deficit or a slight excess and he’d be just fine. He seems to balloon up and that isn’t to help his joints and recovery.

He needs to control what he can control and there is pretty obvious improvement he could have with regard to his weight. Maybe it won’t make a difference but I think it’s fairly obvious removing some of that stress on the body would help.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Good lord he's not 80 lbs overweight
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How overweight is he? He’s shorter than both Lebron and Doncic, and weighs 30 and 50 pounds heavier than each respectively.

6’ 6” at 280 lbs and relying on jumping higher than anyone is simply an untenable proposition if he actually wants to play basketball. No one can convince me he has to weigh that much.
 
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Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Interesting mock draft exercise between Sam Vecenie and Adam Spinella.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKh1vtzRzCo

1 det - victor
2 hou - scoot
3 sas - amen
4 cha - miller
5 por - cam
6 orl - hendricks
7 ind - walker
8 was - black
9 uta - ausar
10 dal - wallace (highly likely the pick is moved)
11 orl - dick
12 okc - miller 2 (could use picks to move up)
13 tor - kobe
14 nol - lively (could move the pick)
15 atl - gg
16 uta - brice (thinks the Jazz should trade up)
17 lal - george
18 mia - nsj
19 gsw - murray
20 hou - jhs
21 brk -sidy
22 brk - dariq
23 por - hawkins
24 sac - clowney
25 mem - colby
26 ind - klintman
27 cha - jett
28 uta - rupert (Vecenie said it came down to Rupert and Bilal)
29 ind - lewis
30 lac - andre jackson
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I wouldn’t have in a million years guessed that that’s what Adam Spinella looks like.. he looks very young for his voice.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Zion is not an average person. He's not even an average NBA player.
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true. He is more like an offensive lineman who carries the weight better than most. His biggest issue is probably his insane vertical more than the weight. He is so good at using his size and has great touch around the hoop that he could probably be pretty effective still even if he wasn't a great jumper. He might be better off staying grounded a bit more. A bit less effective but still effective. Probably be more productive overall since zero production (sitting on the bench injured) is worse than any other situation. Maybe need to save him from himself a bit like how in the nfl coaches will sometimes limit how much a qb runs so he doesnt kill himself. Or how AB used to always end up on the ground because he went so hard and wreckless to the hoop. I think Sexton is a bit too fearless/wreckless too.
Idk if a coach can limit how often zion gets way up off the court but if they could then Zion would probably play a lot more basketball and still be pretty productive (albeit a bit less productive)
 
NUMBERICA said:
How overweight is he? He’s shorter than both Lebron and Doncic, and weighs 30 and 50 pounds heavier than each respectively.

6’ 6” at 280 lbs and relying on jumping higher than anyone is simply an untenable proposition if he actually wants to play basketball. No one can convince me he has to weigh that much.
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Lmao, he’s not 80 pounds over weight. If he was he’d look like fat Albert and waddling around the court and unable to play even when healthy. His biggest deterrent is his athleticism and strength. He puts too much torque on his body. No one 80 pounds over weight could play basketball at the nba level and have any level of success.
 
fishonjazz said:
true. He is more like an offensive lineman who carries the weight better than most. His biggest issue is probably his insane vertical more than the weight. He is so good at using his size and has great touch around the hoop that he could probably be pretty effective still even if he wasn't a great jumper. He might be better off staying grounded a bit more. A bit less effective but still effective. Probably be more productive overall since zero production (sitting on the bench injured) is worse than any other situation. Maybe need to save him from himself a bit like how in the nfl coaches will sometimes limit how much a qb runs so he doesnt kill himself. Or how AB used to always end up on the ground because he went so hard and wreckless to the hoop. I think Sexton is a bit too fearless/wreckless too.
Idk if a coach can limit how often zion gets way up off the court but if they could then Zion would probably play a lot more basketball and still be pretty productive (albeit a bit less productive)
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I think injuries begets injuries more than anything
 
Dariq Whitehead is having another surgery on his foot that will take him out of pre-draft workouts. He'll supposedly be ready by the start of the regular season. However, this is going to affect this draft stock. It's possible he's available at #28, or depending on how his foot is healing this could even push him to the early 2nd round.


View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1654507659188670464
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Dariq Whitehead is having another surgery on his foot that will take him out of pre-draft workouts. He'll supposedly be ready by the start of the regular season. However, this is going to affect this draft stock. It's possible he's available at #28, or depending on how his foot is healing this could even push him to the early 2nd round.


View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1654507659188670464
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Interesting. I was thinking he was trending towards being a top 20 pick but this might scare teams off. I would still take him at 28.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Interesting. I was thinking he was trending towards being a top 20 pick but this might scare teams off. I would still take him at 28.
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Teams will dig into the medical history for sure. On the one hand, it shows that Whitehead was playing hurt at Duke, so that could help him. On the other hand, it shows that he hasn't been healthy in a year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Early in their careers both were in pretty great shape. Both players changed their games late in their careers which is when they put weight on. Both were also durable… Zion has showed his weight and body ain’t working right now.
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Charles was the "round mound of rebound" pretty early on I think, but I hear ya.
 
default said:
Charles was the "round mound of rebound" pretty early on I think, but I hear ya.
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I believe he dropped weight as a rookie... He was fatter in college. Barkley is actually a great example. There is a story about how Moses Malone told him he was fat and lazy... Chuck says Moses helped him lose 50 lbs and attributed his NBA success to it. So... which one of those NOP guys gonna tell Zion?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I believe he dropped weight as a rookie... He was fatter in college. Barkley is actually a great example. There is a story about how Moses Malone told him he was fat and lazy... Chuck says Moses helped him lose 50 lbs and attributed his NBA success to it. So... which one of those NOP guys gonna tell Zion?
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Here's the story:

“You have to be in shape for pro sports. That’s one thing I tell people. Moses (Malone) said ‘hey, you’re fat and lazy. If you want me to help you, I’ll help you’. And he said something that changed my life. He says ‘I don’t even know what your playing weight should be but lets just lose 10 pounds’. This is a guy who was already one of the all time greats. Starts spending time with me before practice, after practice. I lost 10 pounds, I get to 290. He says ‘let’s lose 10 more’. 280, 270, 260, 250. I got to 240, but I had no strength and energy… I got down to 250. He says ‘250 is your weight’. And at this point I’m starting. And I tell people, if he had told me in the beginning ‘let’s lose 50 pounds’, that probably would have been overwhelming. But he said ‘let’s lose 10 pounds’. Then, like I said, once I got to 250, I was just killing people and the rest is history.”
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Interesting. I was thinking he was trending towards being a top 20 pick but this might scare teams off. I would still take him at 28.
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Honestly probably a perfect pick at #28. Let him take essentially a redshirt year to get all the way healthy. Sorta a draft and stash. It would also explain a bit of his "meh" year as well.
 
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