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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
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    i dont care about other teams.

    i care about jazz baskettball.
    and having al as a leader is not jazz basketball
    Yea. Deron was pretty awesome, till he wasn't. AK was a great talent, he didn't work out. Now we have Al, and a bunch of young guys none of which with the exceptions of Burks and maybe Kanter have the demeanor/ability to become the focal point of an offense. Favors is an awesome player, but he does not create offense. Hayward is a very nice role player who will keep getting better, but will never be the focus. Burks has the swag and rim crashing, but no J. Kanter has the dedication and I like his warrior spirit, but does not have elite talent.

    I'm starting to wonder who is going to come in here and produce when Al is gone. We don't have an elite PG, and there isn't one coming up that I see. It is very unlikely that we can get Rondo, and unless you get somebody like that in here you cannot depend upon Favors for a bunch of points. He does not make it happen on offense, and probably won't ever be that guy. Al has also been tremendously durable in his time in Utah, and wants to be a part of this.

    So, without that playmaking PG what do you do with Favors? You let him dominate on D and clean up on O. Al makes the offense go. It's not Stockton & Malone but he is such a threat that he creates situations where others are open. Yea, limit his minutes to around 32. Yea, run the offense through other guys early on. Get them involved. But when the chips are down who else do you want to shoot that ball? Who are you gonna get to do it when he's gone? Al is elite right now scoring in the clutch. Throwing that away is insane. If you can get back something similar production wise (and by that I mean an elite PG) then F YES trade him.

    Otherwise you are deep 6ing the team. Of course this is what a lot of JF want, to tank it all away and nuke the team. Fine, root for losses boys. But not everybody builds like that. Memphis is doing awesome with Z-Bo, who was written off yet has found a new life in Memphis. You dudes would have blown the F out of that team 3 years ago. Now they are kicking ass. Give things a little time. There are very, very good pieces in place here AND a couple lottery picks to develop. Hate on Corbs for doing dumb ****, sure, but Favors has progressed. Hayward is pretty good. Kanter is showing flashes time to time. These young guys don't always just walk into the NBA and dominate. And NONE of them is a PG or an elite playmaker.

    If you want the team nuked, you can expect at least 2 of the young 4 to simply sign elsewhere rather than endure the spin cycle that is the lottery wagon. This is the reality many do not want to see. Those guys WILL go play elsewhere knowing the franchise doesn't want to win. So you better hope the next crop is a lot better than this one.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
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    i dont care about other teams.

    i care about jazz baskettball.
    and having al as a leader is not jazz basketball
    you care about wishing injury to jazz players like BIG AL.
    *edited by moderator*
    Last edited by Bronco70; 12-07-2012 at 11:01 AM.

  4. #163
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    OS - Post and Roast 2.0

  5. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
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    Yea. Deron was pretty awesome, till he wasn't. AK was a great talent, he didn't work out. Now we have Al, and a bunch of young guys none of which with the exceptions of Burks and maybe Kanter have the demeanor/ability to become the focal point of an offense. Favors is an awesome player, but he does not create offense. Hayward is a very nice role player who will keep getting better, but will never be the focus. Burks has the swag and rim crashing, but no J. Kanter has the dedication and I like his warrior spirit, but does not have elite talent.

    I'm starting to wonder who is going to come in here and produce when Al is gone. We don't have an elite PG, and there isn't one coming up that I see. It is very unlikely that we can get Rondo, and unless you get somebody like that in here you cannot depend upon Favors for a bunch of points. He does not make it happen on offense, and probably won't ever be that guy. Al has also been tremendously durable in his time in Utah, and wants to be a part of this.

    So, without that playmaking PG what do you do with Favors? You let him dominate on D and clean up on O. Al makes the offense go. It's not Stockton & Malone but he is such a threat that he creates situations where others are open. Yea, limit his minutes to around 32. Yea, run the offense through other guys early on. Get them involved. But when the chips are down who else do you want to shoot that ball? Who are you gonna get to do it when he's gone? Al is elite right now scoring in the clutch. Throwing that away is insane. If you can get back something similar production wise (and by that I mean an elite PG) then F YES trade him.

    Otherwise you are deep 6ing the team. Of course this is what a lot of JF want, to tank it all away and nuke the team. Fine, root for losses boys. But not everybody builds like that. Memphis is doing awesome with Z-Bo, who was written off yet has found a new life in Memphis. You dudes would have blown the F out of that team 3 years ago. Now they are kicking ass. Give things a little time. There are very, very good pieces in place here AND a couple lottery picks to develop. Hate on Corbs for doing dumb ****, sure, but Favors has progressed. Hayward is pretty good. Kanter is showing flashes time to time. These young guys don't always just walk into the NBA and dominate. And NONE of them is a PG or an elite playmaker.

    If you want the team nuked, you can expect at least 2 of the young 4 to simply sign elsewhere rather than endure the spin cycle that is the lottery wagon. This is the reality many do not want to see. Those guys WILL go play elsewhere knowing the franchise doesn't want to win. So you better hope the next crop is a lot better than this one.
    we will be fine without big al. the DEFENSE makes up more than enough the "loss" of offense from big al.
    we wont lose offense without fat al

  6. #165
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
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    we will be fine without big al. the DEFENSE makes up more than enough the "loss" of offense from big al.
    we wont lose offense without fat al
    Remove Al Jefferson, Corbin.

    Add Defensive players, picks, Defense minded coach.

    You get: 2011 76ers. A team which was competitive but did not know what the F to do when it was time for the big boys to show up. Defense is important. But in the NBA you have to have a scorer, if not two.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  7. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
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    Remove Al Jefferson, Corbin.

    Add Defensive players, picks, Defense minded assistant defensive coach coach, Offensive system(jazz lack that now except dump it to fat al),

    and you get something like the spurs

    fixed

  8. #167
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    Like the Spurs in what way? You just canned the HC, probably will fire the GM/pres, I suppose you will just line the walks with gingerbread and doughnuts and another Popovich will stroll in and tyrannically rule your franchise while you draft several HOF players?

    Good luck Dutch. Sounds to me like you want to wish for that but get the Raptors.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  9. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
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    Interesting, considering I watch every game.
    Over 17 points, over 10 rebs, 2 assists, 1 block, and 1 steal a game.

    Efficiency is +25.00 over the last 5 games, free throw percentage is the highest of his career, and is only a percentage less in field goal percentage than his so-called best year with the T-Wolves.

    I struggle to see what more you would want out of your starting center, other than better defense obviously.
    The guy just isn't a defensive player, get used to it.
    He's an offensive, 4th quarter closer, that any team in the league would want in their line up.
    Yup, he is not a defensive player, glad you agree. Cost us the game the other night against the Clips where he was involved in letting CP get to the basket a few times right at the end for layups.

    Other teams in the league generally do not have guys like this. Most have defense-minded centers who can protect the rim and the paint because it is so important. That's your problem: his key defciency is a critical deficiency. It does not matter as much if your big scorer is a wing guy who does not play D. Matters a lot if your center plays no D.

  10. #169
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
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    his key defciency is a critical deficiency. It does not matter as much if your big scorer is a wing guy who does not play D. Matters a lot if your center plays no D.
    The Jazz have 4 big men that play to each others strengths, and aren't fortunate enough to have to have players who are your best defensive AND offensive players like the Heat, or the Knicks.

    Big Al covers Favors offensive inefficiency, just like Favors covers Big Al's defensive inefficiency.
    As the same can be said here with Millsap and Kanter, but obviously Kanter is picking up more of Millsap's lack of length and lack of heart lately.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
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    The Jazz have 4 big men that play to each others strengths, and aren't fortunate enough to have to have players who are your best defensive AND offensive players like the Heat, or the Knicks.

    Big Al covers Favors offensive inefficiency, just like Favors covers Big Al's defensive inefficiency.
    As the same can be said here with Millsap and Kanter, but obviously Kanter is picking up more of Millsap's lack of length and lack of heart lately.
    But Big Al plays mostly with Sap and Favors with Kanter. So your solution is only hypothetical, as long as we have a coach who think veteran status is the most important thing in deciding who to play.

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