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  1. #11
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thee jazz fan View Post
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    In conclusion you need to stop thinking of him as a scorer like most other sg's and think of him as a playmaker, now if only Ty would.
    Great post, but I just wanted to comment on your conclusion.

    I most definitely agree that Hayward is a playmaker, as he was used this way at Butler very successfully. His 3 point shot has always been a little inconsistent, so there's no reason to think this will change very drastically.
    I would love for Hayward to be used like Lamar Odom used to be used on that great L.A. team.

    At the same time though, I was saying for years that this was the way they should've used Andrei Kirilenko.
    Sloan always refused to do this, and Corbin was part of that staff for many years.
    It always seemed to me that the Jazz coaching staff was too stuck in the past on how offenses should be initiated, and Corbin seems to be the same unfortunately.
    While the front office seems to be moving toward the future, the coaching staff continues to give us more of the same.
    I never understood how older coaches like Nelson, Aldelman, and P. Jackson, could move on to new ways of doing things, but for some reason Sloan never could..... and Corbin has shown nothing different as of yet.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #12
    Senior Member m3at's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't get what all the hype is surrounding Hayward.

  4. #13
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
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    Are you sure in #1 you didn't mean riding someone off his hip instead of his backside?


    Hayweird is trying to add an awkward behind the back direction reversal. It's not the prettiest yet but it's been reasonably effective. But just like his excellent first step and studder step past PnR, he has no damn idea what to do with the ball once past his defender. I suppose this is where you want him to put his defender on his ass and create space from there?
    Wow a compliment about one of our young guys from franklin? Amazing..... even if it was a backhanded compliment, i will take it.
    Maybe franklin is starting to come around with his opinion of our 4 lotto picks.... hallelujah! Good job frank.

  5. #14
    Senior Member bovice's Avatar
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    I agree that Hayward is being used wrong. I almost never see him drive, he just camps near the perimeter. If he's open he'll shoot if not, he'll just pass it to someone else on the perimeter. It's frustrating to watch because I know he's capable of more than that. That being said, I don't want to overhype him as if he'll be a perennial all star. He's not someone I'd want to run an offense through, he's the third best player on a contending team.

  6. #15
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    I am starting to believe the Hayward we are seeing this year is who he will be long term.
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  7. #16
    Senior Member m3at's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bovice View Post
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    I agree that Hayward is being used wrong. I almost never see him drive, he just camps near the perimeter. If he's open he'll shoot if not, he'll just pass it to someone else on the perimeter. It's frustrating to watch because I know he's capable of more than that. That being said, I don't want to overhype him as if he'll be a perennial all star. He's not someone I'd want to run an offense through, he's the third best player on a contending team.
    No way. I think you're overvaluing him A LOT. Look at the true contenders, e.g., Spurs = Duncan, Manu, and Parker. Lakers = Kobe, Howard, and Pau. OKC = Durant, Westbrook, and Martin/Ibaka. Miami = Wade, James, and Bosh/Allen. Boston = Garnet, Pierce, and Rondo.

    Hayward might be the third best player on teams that will likely make the play-offs and could make it to the second round:

    Nets, Mavs, Nicks, Nuggets, Bulls, Wolves, Clippers, and the Jazz.

    Sure Hayward is good, but let's be realistic. He's not a third option on a title contending team.

  8. #17
    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
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    Great post, but I just wanted to comment on your conclusion.

    I most definitely agree that Hayward is a playmaker, as he was used this way at Butler very successfully. His 3 point shot has always been a little inconsistent, so there's no reason to think this will change very drastically.
    I would love for Hayward to be used like Lamar Odom used to be used on that great L.A. team.

    At the same time though, I was saying for years that this was the way they should've used Andrei Kirilenko.
    Sloan always refused to do this, and Corbin was part of that staff for many years.
    It always seemed to me that the Jazz coaching staff was too stuck in the past on how offenses should be initiated, and Corbin seems to be the same unfortunately.
    While the front office seems to be moving toward the future, the coaching staff continues to give us more of the same.
    I never understood how older coaches like Nelson, Aldelman, and P. Jackson, could move on to new ways of doing things, but for some reason Sloan never could..... and Corbin has shown nothing different as of yet.
    thanks Silencer. As for the AK thing, Sloan did use AK that way just not all the time, plus why run the offense through AK when you have the best pg in the game. Also I feel Haywards game isn't as conducive to dominating the ball like Hayward. Hayward is more coordinated, and less awkward, and Hayward is a better shooter, and quicker, better dribbler.

  9. #18
    Senior Member carolinajazz's Avatar
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    If Heyward has to work on FOUR things at this level.....he's turribly flawed and is a lost cause!

  10. #19
    Senior Member bovice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3at View Post
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    No way. I think you're overvaluing him A LOT. Look at the true contenders, e.g., Spurs = Duncan, Manu, and Parker. Lakers = Kobe, Howard, and Pau. OKC = Durant, Westbrook, and Martin/Ibaka. Miami = Wade, James, and Bosh/Allen. Boston = Garnet, Pierce, and Rondo.

    Hayward might be the third best player on teams that will likely make the play-offs and could make it to the second round:

    Nets, Mavs, Nicks, Nuggets, Bulls, Wolves, Clippers, and the Jazz.

    Sure Hayward is good, but let's be realistic. He's not a third option on a title contending team.
    You're giving really good examples of trios. How about...Shaq, Kobe, Horry....Pippen, Jordan, Kukok....Dirk, Terry, Tyson...this is hard.

    ...you're probably right. I'll change it to 4th best.

  11. #20
    Senior Member Inn Dawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3at View Post
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    Sure Hayward is good, but let's be realistic. He's not a third option on a title contending team.
    He wouldn't be a fifth option on such a team.

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