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  1. #131
    Senior Member karpasov's Avatar
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    Shalom. I'm an Israeli. A die-hard Jazz fan. I believe that peace and equality are basic rights for every human being. Including the Palestinians. I am sorry to say, and this is our tragedy, that there is no simple solution for this problem. Obviously the leaders of the Gaza civilians, Hamas, are terrorizing their people. They are the no. 1 cause for suppression and civil rights violations in Gaza. They kill much more civilians than the Israelis do. So in any case, if you look for social justice you must not ever ever side with Hamas. On the other hand, our leader, Netenihau, is a big jerk that only cares about his political power. I wish he would be out of the picture very soon. At the end of the road many many innocent lives are lost because of the stupid power driven leaders of both our nations..

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  3. #132
    Senior Member addictionary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpasov View Post
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    Shalom. I'm an Israeli. A die-hard Jazz fan. I believe that peace and equality are basic rights for every human being. Including the Palestinians. I am sorry to say, and this is our tragedy, that there is no simple solution for this problem. Obviously the leaders of the Gaza civilians, Hamas, are terrorizing their people. They are the no. 1 cause for suppression and civil rights violations in Gaza. They kill much more civilians than the Israelis do. So in any case, if you look for social justice you must not ever ever side with Hamas. On the other hand, our leader, Netenihau, is a big jerk that only cares about his political power. I wish he would be out of the picture very soon. At the end of the road many many innocent lives are lost because of the stupid power driven leaders of both our nations..
    aleykum selam. death count is irrelevant when both sides suffer and I appreciate your view to peace and equality and I do not think hamas are a party of angels. but there obviously is excessive force from the israeli side.

  4. #133
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpasov View Post
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    Obviously the leaders of the Gaza civilians, Hamas, are terrorizing their people. They are the no. 1 cause for suppression and civil rights violations in Gaza. They kill much more civilians than the Israelis do.
    Oh my. Why is it that even the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs and B'tselem (an Israeli human rights NGO) report FAR greater Palestinian than Israeli civilian casualties? It's not even close. Not remotely.

    What the ****?
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  5. #134
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
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    Arafat was offered the West Bank, Gaza, and most of Jerusalem. He refused and Palestinian suicide bombings continued. There is going to be less and less land for a Palestinian state the longer they hold out and rain terror into Israel.
    "Refused" is a strong word. Negotiations continued until Israeli elections, at which point they were suspended, with both parties stating that an agreement was closer than ever. Should Arafat have accepted? With the luxury of hindsight, and the reality that has been Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu, absolutely. At the time of the suspension of talks, however, Arafat was still winning concessions, and apparently didn't think the outcome of the Israeli election would have a significant effect on that momentum. He was wrong, but he didn't simply "refuse".
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  6. #135
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    GVC. . . . .

    you gotta learn to question news sources a little, no matter who they are.

    The claim by the Israelis and their sympathizers is that Hamas missiles are launched. . . . not from the open fields that are claimed to exist around the people's dwelling places and business places, but from bunkers Hamas builds in the center of the the very most densely populated spots, with bomb-hardened bunkers only Hamas personnel can enter. No effort is made by Hamas sto protect their own people, and they are in fact brazenly used as a sort of "human shielf" for their launching sites. Further, it is claimed by the Israelis that they give advance warning to the people of impending retaliatory strikes on thses bunkers, asking the Palestininans to please clear away. . . .

    The emotional value of the the word "refused" in this case is actually irrelevant. The refusal is the fact, regardless of the context or intentions of Arafat. . . . just logic, kid. It a computer byte with a value of 0 or 1, that's all.

  7. #136
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
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    GVC. . . . .

    you gotta learn to question news sources a little, no matter who they are.

    The claim by the Israelis and their sympathizers is that Hamas missiles are launched. . . . not from the open fields that are claimed to exist around the people's dwelling places and business places, but from bunkers Hamas builds in the center of the the very most densely populated spots, with bomb-hardened bunkers only Hamas personnel can enter. No effort is made by Hamas sto protect their own people, and they are in fact brazenly used as a sort of "human shielf" for their launching sites. Further, it is claimed by the Israelis that they give advance warning to the people of impending retaliatory strikes on thses bunkers, asking the Palestininans to please clear away. . . .

    The emotional value of the the word "refused" in this case is actually irrelevant. The refusal is the fact, regardless of the context or intentions of Arafat. . . . just logic, kid. It a computer byte with a value of 0 or 1, that's all.
    1. Hamas's tactics don't change the fact that the Palestinian civilian body count exceeds the Israeli civilian body count by a retarded amount. The context of those numbers is another matter entirely; one which I wasn't addressing. My post was a response to Karpasov's ridiculously false claim (and nothing else).

    2. Emotional value? I'm adding context (isn't that what you were doing in your post above?). Negotiations were ongoing. Did Arafat reject some proposals? Absolutely. Did he make a strategic error? Yes (with the benefit of hindsight). Did he walk away from the table entirely? No.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  8. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
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    1. Hamas's tactics don't change the fact that the Palestinian civilian body count exceeds the Israeli civilian body count by a retarded amount. The context of those numbers is another matter entirely; one which I wasn't addressing. My post was a response to Karpasov's ridiculously false claim (and nothing else).

    2. Emotional value? I'm adding context (isn't that what you were doing in your post above?). Negotiations were ongoing. Did Arafat reject some proposals? Absolutely. Did he make a strategic error? Yes (with the benefit of hindsight). Did he walk away from the table entirely? No.

    If a person attacks you with intent to kill ineptly are you required to pull your punches? I think not.
    The pen is mightier than the sword. I keep the sword for the day I run out of ink. - Unknown

    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. - Soren Kierkegaard

  9. #138
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
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    If a person attacks you with intent to kill ineptly are you required to pull your punches? I think not.
    What? Maybe you should read the posts you're responding to.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  10. #139
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  11. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
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    1. Hamas's tactics don't change the fact that the Palestinian civilian body count exceeds the Israeli civilian body count by a retarded amount. The context of those numbers is another matter entirely; one which I wasn't addressing. My post was a response to Karpasov's ridiculously false claim (and nothing else).
    ever been to israel?
    do you know they have bomb shelters.
    thats why the civilian body count is so low.
    because israel invested in defense.
    defense = bomb shelters

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