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  1. #261
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
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    How is your conviction that the offense will move the ball better or guys will cut more without Al any less speculative? The Toronto game? The Laker game when our bigs didn't pass the ball any more than Al does?
    Seems like both of those games (toronto and LA) were quit good games for the jazz.... Do you disagree? Oh wait your stubborness will force you to say it was because of the defense of the opponent and that it had nothing to do with the fact that al was getting the ball less.

    Or something like "sample size".

    So how did i do explaining your side of the arguement for ya?

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  3. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    Ya i acknowledged that we use favors and kanter the same way, however the difference between favors/kanter and jefferson is that corbin wants the offense to go through AL MORE OFTEN than favors and kanter.
    But that's not true, either. Under normal circumstances, Favors and Kanter are on the floor with Tinsley. Hayward is usually out there and we've (thankfully) gotten away from letting Hayward do too much. Tinsley makes plays Mo can't make as a PG, but the offense generally runs the same way.

    Chart it if you want. But we don't run a starter offense and a backup offense.

  4. #263
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
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    But that's not true, either. Under normal circumstances, Favors and Kanter are on the floor with Tinsley. Hayward is usually out there and we've (thankfully) gotten away from letting Hayward do too much. Tinsley makes plays Mo can't make as a PG, but the offense generally runs the same way.

    Chart it if you want. But we don't run a starter offense and a backup offense.
    Fact is (however unfortunate to your side of this arguement) that favors and kanter get less minutes than al.... therfore there is no doubt in my mind that i am correct when i say that Al has the ball in the post MORE OFTEN than favors and kanter.... due to minutes that is straight up fact.

    Now when you say that nothing would change if kanter or favors started instead of al that is total guessing and speculation.
    I always take the side of fact over guessing. Sorry

    Also there is a huge change to the offense you are forgetting. Kanter and favors are much more mobile so there is alot more transition offense. And they are better defensively causing turnovers and tough shots leading to even more transition.

  5. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    Seems like both of those games (toronto and LA) were quit good games for the jazz.... Do you disagree? Oh wait your stubborness will force you to say it was because of the defense of the opponent and that it had nothing to do with the fact that al was getting the ball less.

    Or something like "sample size".

    So how did i do explaining your side of the arguement for ya?
    Forget Toronto, I can't convert anyone who thinks blowing out Toronto was because of a paradigm shift.

    Look at LA. Paul took 18 shots. He had 2 assists. In 40 minutes. Who does that remind you of? And the ball still "moved" right?

  6. #265
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Plus right now kanter and favors are used similar to AL and that COULD be due to that fact that it is difficult for an inexperienced coach and young bench to change the offense up for the non big al lineups.

    Is it not possible that with al gone and favors or kanter in his place that ty could eventually change the offense to something more pick and roll focused or something?

  7. #266
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
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    Forget Toronto, I can't convert anyone who thinks blowing out Toronto was because of a paradigm shift.

    Look at LA. Paul took 18 shots. He had 2 assists. In 40 minutes. Who does that remind you of? And the ball still "moved" right?
    Not sure if the ball moved but it sure was a fun game to watch and we seemed to score ok (117 pts) during that game. (that is what this thread is all about after all)

  8. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    I like you Billy, but I have a trollish response:

    Cool story. Would you like some Sexual Turkey?
    I have said in every post that I don't think either Al or Paul will be back and we will start next year with Favors and Kanter starting. Based on what I have seen from Kanter very recently, I'd basically be OK with that. But we will get worse off the bat because neither of those guys can score reliably in the post, and many people don't seem to understand how important that is to an offense.

  9. #268
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
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    I have said in every post that I don't think either Al or Paul will be back and we will start next year with Favors and Kanter starting. Based on what I have seen from Kanter very recently, I'd basically be OK with that. But we will get worse off the bat because neither of those guys can score reliably in the post, and many people don't seem to understand how important that is to an offense.
    Like i said, you presume that the offense will be the same.....is it not possible for corbin to change the offense once his safety blanket (jefferson) is gone?

    Or do think there is some kind of rule that no matter the personnell the offense must go through the low post no matter what?

    Oh wait you said yourself that they used paul millsap against the lakers in a much different way and totally changed the offense to the tune of 117 pts on the road.... so there is a chance things could change without big Al.
    Thanks for that insight billy. I look forward to next year even more now!

  10. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    Not sure if the ball moved but it sure was a fun game to watch and we seemed to score ok (117 pts) during that game. (that is what this thread is all about after all)
    This thread is not about what the "funnest" offense is. If we were looking for "fun" we'd hire Paul Westhead to install the Loyola Marymount offense. Scoring more points does not mean we ran a different offense against the Lakers. We just ran things better than we have with more guys cutting and a very good break.

  11. #270
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    I'll add this as a sidebar: at least there is the merit that I'm willing to admit the speculative nature of my argument. The Al apologists preach their stuff like gospel.
    It's just a specific response to a specific accusation. There is somebody wandering all over the GD place in here but it's not me. If you don't like watching basketball with the ball going down low into the bigs all the time great, awesome. Me too. I want a more rounded offense same as everybody else. The fact is Al Jefferson does not make that low block action any slower than it is designed to be, nor does he discourage other players from moving by doing something incorrectly.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

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