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  1. #21
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    I would think one would aquire more assists when passing out of the post to an open mo williams, randy foye, or marvin williams, than you would passsing out to gordon, tinsley, or demarre.

    The combo of Mo, randy, marvin is better to pass to than gordon, tinsley, demarre.

    I still agree with the stats that millsap and al are better passers right now than a couple of 20 year old though..... i also think if this study was done across the league you would find that players who have been in the league for 8 years in thier late 20's are usually better passers than 20 or 21 year olds.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    All of our quantitative analyses are approximations of the qualities that result from the relation of multiple non-numerical quantities of force; we perceive only these qualities, therefore any quantitative analysis involves the art of qualitative analysis.

    The quantitative reductions of passing given in free and available stats are deeply flawed. If Hayward is passing less, then that definitely has something to do with him transitioning to a focal point of the second unit. If Favors seems to be regressing, something tells me it is because THE WORLD is telling him to be more aggressive. Etc.

    From what I hear, new advanced stats are tackling this issue specifically. It'll be interesting to see what new measurements look like. But, for now, there is nothing close to the eyeball test when evaluating passing. Hayward is fine. Mo is figuring things out. Millsap is under-rated. Jefferson has improved.
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    1)All of our quantitative analyses are approximations of the qualities that result from the relation of multiple non-numerical quantities of force; we perceive only these qualities, therefore any quantitative analysis involves the art of qualitative analysis.

    2)The quantitative reductions of passing given in free and available stats are deeply flawed. If Hayward is passing less, then that definitely has something to do with him transitioning to a focal point of the second unit. If Favors seems to be regressing, something tells me it is because THE WORLD is telling him to be more aggressive. Etc.

    3)From what I hear, new advanced stats are tackling this issue specifically. It'll be interesting to see what new measurements look like. But, for now, there is nothing close to the eyeball test when evaluating passing. Hayward is fine. Mo is figuring things out. Millsap is under-rated. Jefferson has improved.
    The first part would make Derrida proud in that it paradoxically tries to present a strong and lucid point by obfuscating it with abstractions and poor sentence structure. When broken down the sentence means "there are too many mysterious things going on to try and understand passing."

    On the second part: how do you know that Hayward is passing less? Also, stats should be used to do the analysis you just did, i.e., try to understand why the numbers say what they do.

    On the third: There's nothing to say since this attitude is based on some sort of feeling of the spirit or trusting to your senses and perfect memory. You like one, I like both (numbers and my senses + brain).

  5. #24
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
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    The first part would make Derrida proud in that it paradoxically tries to present a strong and lucid point by obfuscating it with abstractions and poor sentence structure. When broken down the sentence means "there are too many mysterious things going on to try and understand passing."

    On the second part: how do you know that Hayward is passing less? Also, stats should be used to do the analysis you just did, i.e., try to understand why the numbers say what they do.

    On the third: There's nothing to say since this attitude is based on some sort of feeling of the spirit or trusting to your senses and perfect memory. You like one, I like both (numbers and my senses + brain).
    my post was for you JJAS_2814.
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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    my post was for you JJAS_2814.
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  7. #26
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
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    Is that you Franklin?
    I thought you were Franklin?!?
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  8. #27
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    It's not Evans?
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  9. #28
    Senior Member illyasova's Avatar
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    Who's the Worst Passer on the Jazz? No doubt it's Kanter. Favors is better than Kanter easily. The question is not about stats but also talent wise. Big Al may be does not like passing the ball but most def. he is good at passing when he wants but it's opposite for Kanter. He can not think fast or react after seeing the open guy or even he does, he can not pass it with good force at time. It's slow process for big men to improve basketball iq, see passing channels when they are under the pressure and Kanter has way to go for it.
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  10. #29
    Senior Member Saint Cy of JFC's Avatar
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    Big Al suffers from a slow mind when it comes to passing. Him and Millsap have some good chemistry, but he is the only player I really ever see Al make any kind of advanced passes to.
    Shovel your way out of the s***

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    The ability to pass has everything to do with the quality of the offense. I watched the Spurs last night, and they're #1 in assists. You'd think that was because they must have assembled a bunch of quality passers. Not true. Parker leads the team at 7.6. Manu is at 4.5. But the shocking number is they've got 10 guys between 1 and 2 (a little misleading since all 10 don't play every night, but we have 3 for sake of comparison.)

    In other words, they've got a ton of guys getting cheap assists every night -- pass to a guy, he scores, get an assist.

    You could chalk this up to all the PnR they run, but that's not it. The beauty of the Spurs offense is everybody knows where everybody is going to be. They remove thinking and creativity from the equation better than anyone.

    When we consistently have cutters or perimeter players sliding to designated spots on the arc, everybody will suddenly become a better passer.

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