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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #321
    Senior Member gregbroncs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLes View Post
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    That's the risk I'd be willing to take. At least I could then easily assume that everyone with a gun is a bad guy. Right now, I'm supposed to trust you when you claim you're not.
    So you would be willing to identify the bad guys. But who would stop them? This country would be at the mercy of criminals and police if they were the only ones with firearms.

    Every store would be vulnerable and unable to have their own security. Every nut job would be able to get a gun and have confidence that they could do a lot of damage before getting stopped.

    We don't take cars away from people because of drunk drivers. Why do we need to take guns away from people because of criminals? It makes no sense to me.
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  3. #322
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbroncs View Post
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    So you would be willing to identify the bad guys. But who would stop them? This country would be at the mercy of criminals and police if they were the only ones with firearms.

    Every store would be vulnerable and unable to have their own security. Every nut job would be able to get a gun and have confidence that they could do a lot of damage before getting stopped.

    We don't take cars away from people because of drunk drivers. Why do we need to take guns away from people because of criminals? It makes no sense to me.
    Cars and guns are different from one another.

  4. #323
    world's worst Bronco70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    So it sounds like we dont want it to be any harder for the "good guys" to be able to get guns, but i think we would all agree that we do want it to be more difficult for the "bad guys" to get them.

    So anybody have a good way to make this happen?
    Bronco, you seem to be pretty smart and know your gun laws... do you have any thoughts on how this could be achieved?
    Unfortunately, as Salty pointed out, bad guys don't generally use legitimate channels to acquire their guns. IMO, laws constructed to make it more difficult to get one have more impact on law abiding gun owners. That's not to say there shouldn't be any. I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, and such. Some who shouldn't own will stopped this way. But those who procure guns for malicious reasons, there isn't a lot that can be implemented that will have significant effect. There are just too many guns out there. I wish I had a better answer, but I think simply being more diligent about enforcing current laws would make a difference. As far as private transactions go, well, they're going to happen. If I were selling a gun, I would require a CC. You can found negligent if a gun used in a crime is traced back to you w/o proper paperwork. In theory, that should be enough incentive to take care in who you sell to, but again, the bad element doesn't regard the law anyway.

  5. #324
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post
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    Unfortunately, as Salty pointed out, bad guys don't generally use legitimate channels to acquire their guns. IMO, laws constructed to make it more difficult to get one have more impact on law abiding gun owners. That's not to say there shouldn't be any. I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, and such. Some who shouldn't own will stopped this way. But those who procure guns for malicious reasons, there isn't a lot that can be implemented that will have significant effect. There are just too many guns out there. I wish I had a better answer, but I think simply being more diligent about enforcing current laws would make a difference. As far as private transactions go, well, they're going to happen. If I were selling a gun, I would require a CC. You can found negligent if a gun used in a crime is traced back to you w/o proper paperwork. In theory, that should be enough incentive to take care in who you sell to, but again, the bad element doesn't regard the law anyway.
    Great post.... this is the conclusion that i have come to as well.

  6. #325
    Modstapo Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the thriller View Post
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    had those weapons been banned, his mother wouldn't have had them and adam wouldn't have had them. What evidence do we have that he would have tapped into the "black market" and purchased those weapons?

    i'm not seeing the evidence that the "bad guys" will just end up with guns anyway. Some might. Some won't.

    regulate this stuff. If you can pass the requirements then you have nothing to be afraid of. If it doesn't affect anyone and anyone truly can just go to the black market to get this stuff then what's the big deal about the added regulation? Why cry about it if you can just go to the black market?
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  7. #326
    the Chief Old D'oh moevillini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post
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    ...There are just too many guns out there. I wish I had a better answer, but I think simply being more diligent about enforcing current laws would make a difference....

    ...but again, the bad element doesn't regard the law anyway.
    for the most part, the "bad element" sort of sticks to its own kind...

    it's the unbalanced (who are generally not what I think of when someone refers to the "bad element) that go out and randomly shoot strangers for no apparent reasons

    we know how Adam Lanza got his guns, but what about Jared Loughner, Dylan Klebold, James Holmes, the VaTech and NIU shooters - where did the system break down as far as they are concerned?

    at any rate, the key part of your statement - that there are "just too many guns" is critical

    and not just that, but it seems to me (despite everyone's arguments here to the contrary) that there are just TOO MANY GUN OWNERS who have TOO CAVALIER an attitude about their weapons.

    definitely needs to be mandatory jail time for anyone whose gun is used in a crime, whether it was stolen or lost - - especially if they failed to report it

    and no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place

    I know some of you will howl at that, but come on...

    is there any room for compromise on this issue?
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  8. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by moevillini View Post
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    for the most part, the "bad element" sort of sticks to its own kind...

    it's the unbalanced (who are generally not what I think of when someone refers to the "bad element) that go out and randomly shoot strangers for no apparent reasons

    we know how Adam Lanza got his guns, but what about Jared Loughner, Dylan Klebold, James Holmes, the VaTech and NIU shooters - where did the system break down as far as they are concerned?

    at any rate, the key part of your statement - that there are "just too many guns" is critical

    and not just that, but it seems to me (despite everyone's arguments here to the contrary) that there are just TOO MANY GUN OWNERS who have TOO CAVALIER an attitude about their weapons.

    definitely needs to be mandatory jail time for anyone whose gun is used in a crime, whether it was stolen or lost - - especially if they failed to report it

    and no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place

    I know some of you will howl at that, but come on...

    is there any room for compromise on this issue?
    Did any of the mass shooters get their guns at a gun show or from the net?

    The left attacking those things to me are like the right pushing for restrictive laws to curb voter fraud.

    It seems like we're headed for minority report. Isn't that the movie about punishing for crimes that haven't been committed yet? That's pretty much the same thing, to me, as telling someone, "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."

  9. #328
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
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    Did any of the mass shooters get their guns at a gun show or from the net?

    The left attacking those things to me are like the right pushing for restrictive laws to curb voter fraud.

    It seems like we're headed for minority report. Isn't that the movie about punishing for crimes that haven't been committed yet? That's pretty much the same thing, to me, as telling someone, "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."
    In your post say "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."
    I dont think he was saying that.... you and i and most people can still buy guns, we just have to go to stores that sell them and pass background checks..... He said "no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place."
    So stop putting words in peoples mouths..... you are acting as if he said Ban guns, no guns for anyone. which is not at all what he was implying.

  10. #329
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Most of the gun control ideas that people are suggesting will not even effect most of us so i dont understand why pro gun people are freaking out.

    Oh no ksl stopped selling guns..... So what? just go to a gun store to get your guns. Whats the big deal?

    If ksl stopped selling coffee tables, then i would go to wallmart or rc willey or something to get a coffee table... and i like coffee tables and use them all the time but i would't freak out if ksl stopped selling them.

  11. #330
    Senior Member JimLes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbroncs View Post
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    So you would be willing to identify the bad guys. But who would stop them? This country would be at the mercy of criminals and police if they were the only ones with firearms.

    Every store would be vulnerable and unable to have their own security. Every nut job would be able to get a gun and have confidence that they could do a lot of damage before getting stopped.

    We don't take cars away from people because of drunk drivers. Why do we need to take guns away from people because of criminals? It makes no sense to me.
    There are countries that function just fine without a gun-to-people ownership of nearly one. They aren't Mad Max-style post-apocalyptic wastelands.

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