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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #431
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    I dont think that anyone was saying that votes dont have power or that they are harmless.... just saying that guns and votes are 2 different things and comparing them is stupid...... therefore the way that they are handled should be looked at separately.
    The point I was trying to make is that there are a number of people here that have argued there should absolutely no rules, regulations, ID checks or any other such infringement on a person's right to vote because it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No questions asked. Anybody can vote, period. Asking for ID is voter suppression and infringing on Constitutional rights, i.e. voter ID is unconstitutional.

    These same people are the ones that think there should be numerous rules, regulations, background checks, mental checks, etc. for someone to purchase a gun even though owning a gun is also a Constitutional right.

    You can't have it both ways. Either Constitutional rights are subject to rules and regulation or they aren't.

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  3. #432
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
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    The point I was trying to make is that there are a number of people here that have argued there should absolutely no rules, regulations, ID checks or any other such infringement on a person's right to vote because it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No questions asked. Anybody can vote, period. Asking for ID is voter suppression and infringing on Constitutional rights, i.e. voter ID is unconstitutional.

    These same people are the ones that think there should be numerous rules, regulations, background checks, mental checks, etc. for someone to purchase a gun even though owning a gun is also a Constitutional right.

    You can't have it both ways. Either Constitutional rights are subject to rules and regulation or they aren't.
    Oh i see now.... fair enough and sorry if seemed i was on the attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
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    The point I was trying to make is that there are a number of people here that have argued there should absolutely no rules, regulations, ID checks or any other such infringement on a person's right to vote because it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No questions asked. Anybody can vote, period. Asking for ID is voter suppression and infringing on Constitutional rights, i.e. voter ID is unconstitutional.

    These same people are the ones that think there should be numerous rules, regulations, background checks, mental checks, etc. for someone to purchase a gun even though owning a gun is also a Constitutional right.

    You can't have it both ways. Either Constitutional rights are subject to rules and regulation or they aren't.
    Not all of those "same people" are lumped into that group. I've been pretty consistent against restrictions on both rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
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    Not all of those "same people" are lumped into that group. I've been pretty consistent against restrictions on both rights.
    I'll give you this.

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    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    This will put a few people here into a tailspin...

    https://townhall.com/news/politics-e...chers-n1474577

    Utah is among a few states that let people carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools without exception, the National Conference of State Legislatures says in a 2012 compendium of state gun laws.

  7. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
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    Shouldn't there be an issue with fraudulent voting before we enforce Voter IDs? None of the actual voting issues in this country are soved by Voter ID. It's a solution in search of a problem.
    There are plenty of laws against voter fraud around, but not nearly as many as there are in regard to guns. Use of guns in commission of assault or other crimes already racks up extra penalties under the law. That's why shooter nutjobs acting out wanton killings in no-gun zones do it with the plan to shoot themselves before being taken down by anyone. and that's why no laws or regulations can effectively address this problem. . . .

    on the other hand, enforcing voter laws to ensure fraudulent actions will always get punished is essential to the idea of representative government.

    Too bad both the Republican and Democratic national party organizations do not believe in "representative government" in fact, and do in fact have a sort of pac to divide the spoils of their various types of tactics, including not taking fraud to the courts. . .. recounts is as far as it goes.. . . .

    I could do a pretty long bit on this, but it's truly useless to try to educate the folks who are committed to their blindness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
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    I love how whenever look under the populist right-wing rhetoric stone, you can reliably find an elitist crawling out from it.
    Here's a site without the "populist right-wing rhetoric" where a lot of elitists snicker up their sleeves at the masses who are just not quite as special as they are. . . .

    https://www.cfr.org/about/membership/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
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    The point I was trying to make is that there are a number of people here that have argued there should absolutely no rules, regulations, ID checks or any other such infringement on a person's right to vote because it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No questions asked. Anybody can vote, period. Asking for ID is voter suppression and infringing on Constitutional rights, i.e. voter ID is unconstitutional.
    In what universe is "Voter ID does not solve any actual issue with voting" the same as "there should absolutely no rules, regulations, ID checks or any other such infringement"? I'm a firm believer that registration verification is important, that ballots need to be secured, that the voting process needs to be as simple and unconfusing as possible. That requires rules, regulations, ID checks to confirm registrations, and some other infringements. Voter ID, though, does nothing to address the real voting problems in this coutry. It just makes it more difficult to vote. It's a solution in search of a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
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    You can't have it both ways. Either Constitutional rights are subject to rules and regulation or they aren't.
    Every Constitutional right is subject to rules and regulations. However, since they are Constitutional rights, the rules and regulations need to be as small as possible in order to acheive the stated goal.

    Also, in the case of guns laws, what you have are competing Constitutional rights (broadly, self-defense vs. security against threats). Not all guns should be banned, but you can accomplish self-defense without a gun that has a magazine of 30 bullets and can fire them in 15 seconds.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  10. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
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    on the other hand, enforcing voter laws to ensure fraudulent actions will always get punished is essential to the idea of representative government.
    I agree. My only disagreement is that Voter ID laws, in particular, do not punish actual fraudulent acitons because they address the types of fraudulent actions that are seldom seen in reality.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  11. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
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    Here's a site without the "populist right-wing rhetoric" where a lot of elitists snicker up their sleeves at the masses who are just not quite as special as they are. . . .
    I don't know enough about the CFR to have an informed opinion. Your wording makes me suspicious that your are engaging in the the common confusion between believing in elitism and believing in expertise, but it's a suspicion only.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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