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  1. #41
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
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    Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
    He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
    It's time to expand those opportunities.

    Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
    I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.
    So letting players expire isn't an option since your favorite players absolutely must play 35mpg immediately. Gotcha. Let's bring in someone else's ****ty contract so you can buy a foam finger.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

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  3. #42
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
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    You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

    Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

    It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.
    in other words, Frank the Tank is ALL IN on the bet that one (and probably both) of Al and Paul will be dealt by the deadline.
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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
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    What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?
    Every GM in the league is looking at KOC's situation and nothing has materialized yet (that we know of). Everyone seems to know it will be tough to get a deal done. The Jazz can't just give Jefferson away without a legitimate reason why it's good for the organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
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    Was this already discussed somewhere (details on what Presti wanted) and Jazz declining? Can you link it?
    I couldn't find it earlier googling about 20 minutes for the source. It came out of a KOC interview IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    in other words, Frank the Tank is ALL IN on the bet that one (and probably both) of Al and Paul will be dealt by the deadline.
    I wish it were that easy. I'm all in on both won't be re-signed. Doing that is saying see ya to a whole bunch of fans.


    Put some respeck in my paycheck

  5. #44
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
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    Every GM in the league is looking at KOC's situation and nothing has materialized yet (that we know of). Everyone seems to know it will be tough to get a deal done. The Jazz can't just give Jefferson away without a legitimate reason why it's good for the organization.



    I couldn't find it earlier googling about 20 minutes for the source. It came out of a KOC interview IIRC.



    I wish it were that easy. I'm all in on both won't be re-signed. Doing that is saying see ya to a whole bunch of fans.
    It's tough to get a deal done because teams aren't willing to give up assets to acquire Al or Paul when they could just get them in FA without giving up picks or other assets.

    Not every team is Billy King level of stupid and will give up a player or pick for a player they could acquire via FA. In fact that trade is widely regarded as the worst trade of our time.

    So this argument that we need to "keep their trade value up" is pure garbage. They don't have value.

    They will just expire and go to another team the way Boozer, David West, Korver, etc.

    I'm asking you for examples of where it makes sense for a team to do this.

    So in short, you agree it is difficult to get a deal done. In the end what a wasted a** season this was stifling the growth of our top 3 picks so we could watch players that wont be on this team next year get the majority of minutes all for a 1st round sweep at best.

  6. #45
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
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    You poor thang.

    CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.
    Coming along nicely? Having completely stalled from one year ago is "coming along nicely"?
    "Adversity is opportunity in disguise."

  7. #46
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
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    Coming along nicely? Having completely stalled from one year ago is "coming along nicely"?
    Seriously, in what appreciable way are the Jazz better as a team or in a better position now than a year ago? And don't cite that contracts are further along now, because that doesn't reflect action or actual improvement.
    "Adversity is opportunity in disguise."

  8. #47
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    What is appreciable about letting Millsap and Jefferson expire when it costs you development (and maybe good will, and dollars and cents, and whatever longterm assets you could conceivably net, and...) of the players your organization is or SHOULD be serious about? That's the course the Jazz have married themselves to so far.
    "Adversity is opportunity in disguise."

  9. #48
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
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    What is appreciable about letting Millsap and Jefferson expire when it costs you development of the players your organization is or SHOULD be serious about? That's the course the Jazz have married themselves to so far.
    +1

  10. #49
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that if Jefferson doesn't have real market value (and I'm confident he doesn't), he doesn't have real market value. Holding onto him beyond reason (you could easily argue that line is as early as trade deadline 2011 and as late as 2012 offseason, you cannot easily argue beyond that) doesn't help your negotiating position down the line, it just makes you look foolish.
    Last edited by NUMBERICA; 12-18-2012 at 02:12 PM.
    "Adversity is opportunity in disguise."

  11. #50
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
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    The bottom line is that if Jefferson doesn't have real market value (and I'm confident he doesn't), he doesn't have real market value. Holding onto him beyond reason (you could easily argue that line is as early as trade deadline 2011 and as late as 2012 offseason, you cannot easily argue beyond that) doesn't help your negotiating position down the line, it just makes you look foolish.
    One last post:

    The Jazz got Jefferson for scraps: three poor-to-middling assets and financial savings. Does ANYONE think the Jazz could find a team that would give the Jazz a rookie-contract big, two crappy 1sts, and Jefferson off the books immediately or a BETTER offer? I've yet to see anyone - including Alpologists - indicate that he'd net that much. So if I'm accurate in saying that the Jazz couldn't even get that, preserving your negotiating position now and in the future is a very poor excuse as there is no upside. His value is good or it isn't. It's hard to low-ball an offer for a guy with medium to poor market-value.

    All bets are off if the Jazz extend/re-sign Jefferson, as will all fans of good basketball in Utah.
    Last edited by NUMBERICA; 12-18-2012 at 02:12 PM.
    "Adversity is opportunity in disguise."

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