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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jazz4ever's Avatar
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    What's strange is Millsap is having a bad year with this metric but has always been a +/- champion. He is at -3.8 this year after being +11 last year. Jefferson too, was very good last year at +8.4 and is currently at an appalling -6.5 this year. Someone pointed out how well they worked together last year, a bromance if you will, that is completely absent this year. One would think surrounding them with three point shooters like Mo and Marvin would open up their games but it has not seemed to work at all. Its either a chemistry issue or free agency is weighing heavily on their minds, which I'm not sure.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz4ever View Post
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    What's strange is Millsap is having a bad year with this metric but has always been a +/- champion. He is at -3.8 this year after being +11 last year. Jefferson too, was very good last year at +8.4 and is currently at an appalling -6.5 this year. Someone pointed out how well they worked together last year, a bromance if you will, that is completely absent this year. One would think surrounding them with three point shooters like Mo and Marvin would open up their games but it has not seemed to work at all. Its either a chemistry issue or free agency is weighing heavily on their minds, which I'm not sure.
    Scouting reports
    "The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team." - John Wooden

  4. #13
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers View Post
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    I know it all depends on who is playing with who but why is our bench way better than the starters??
    Is this not a reliable way to look at players???
    Or against who.

    Last night Favors played 14:27 against Lamar and Turiaf, and 4:45 against the starters. He was +12.

    Not to give the starters a free pass though, They can't seem to run the offense to save their lives.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #14
    Senior Member Lion's Roar's Avatar
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    #1 It shows where teams are making runs. Jazz are making comebacks with their subs and being beat with the starters.

    #2 In a team like Utah where 1st unit and 2nd unit are almost mutually exlcusive you can't use +/- to compare players cause starters and subs face such different opposition.

    #3 If the numbers hold for the season you could say that the Jazz 1st unit is bellow league average while the bench unit is above league average.

    #4 In a game-by-game setting it's pretty much pointless. It only becomes an issue when trends emerge. Basically in a game setting it helps you establish a sense of a recap trough the boxscore and little else.

  6. #15
    Senior Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
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    Or against who.

    Last night Favors played 14:27 against Lamar and Turiaf, and 4:45 against the starters. He was +12.

    Not to give the starters a free pass though, They can't seem to run the offense to save their lives.
    So true. I feel bad for Millsap though. He just stands there watching Jefferson play 1 on 1. No plays are ran for him anymore. Doesn't excuse his bad defense or lack of boxing out or pointless fouls. lol

    But if we keep Jefferson past this year I will no longer watch the Jazz. I couldn't watch Jefferson ruin Kanter and Favors.
    "The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team." - John Wooden

  7. #16
    Senior Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion's Roar View Post
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    #1 It shows where teams are making runs. Jazz are making comebacks with their subs and being beat with the starters.

    #2 In a team like Utah where 1st unit and 2nd unit are almost mutually exlcusive you can't use +/- to compare players cause starters and subs face such different opposition.

    #3 If the numbers hold for the season you could say that the Jazz 1st unit is bellow league average while the bench unit is above league average.

    #4 In a game-by-game setting it's pretty much pointless. It only becomes an issue when trends emerge. Basically in a game setting it helps you establish a sense of a recap trough the boxscore and little else.
    Our Bench plays long periods of time. Other teams they mix it up much more. Our bench does play starters also.

    To me I see it as Jefferson being the main problem Along with Foye. But the current combination of starters is not working is what these stats show me. The rest can be debated both ways. But no way anyone can argue that the current combination of starters is working well.
    "The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team." - John Wooden

  8. #17
    bordelais7's Avatar
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    +/- is completely reliable. Plus or minus infinity reliabilities.
    ^^^this

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