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Thread: cheating...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
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    Many of these non-monogamous customs are driven by male dominated societies where the woman's desires are hardly considered if at all, are they not?. I'm no expert so I'm completely open to being educated on the subject.

    Regardless of whatever cultural norms exist I believe jealousy and security are biologically driven emotions. I think people can try to take a rational view and I think they are often sunk by deep-seated emotional reactions to someone we are in a relationship engaging in sexual activity with a rival.
    I don't think there is a male-dominated culture that allows polyandry/polyamory/group marriage. So, while I would agree the allowing polygyny as the only form of multiple marriage is an excellent indicator of a male-dominated society, it is disingenuous to describe that more generally as "non-monogamous cultures", since only one particular type of non-monogamy is allowed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_marriage

    I agree that cultural values can be so ingrained that we feel jealousy/insecurity even when we know there is no rational basis for it. I also agree that jealousy and insecurity are biologically driven. However, they are also affected by those ingrained culture values. You can only be jealous of something you think can be possessed or owned (when was the last time you were jealous of air?); you can only be insecure about something you think you will lose (when was the last time the setting moon made you insecure?). If you regard a mate as something that can not be possessed or owned, if you regard their commitment as based on something other than monogamy, then the prerequisites for feeling jealousy/insecurity do not form.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Moses View Post
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    There's no excuse for cheating.
    I agree. The very word "cheating" means you are breaking the rules. You should never break the rules you agree to with your partner.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
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    I agree. The very word "cheating" means you are breaking the rules. You should never break the rules you agree to with your partner.
    If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartsock View Post
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    If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.
    Depends on your lifestyle.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
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    Depends on your lifestyle.
    If you got pass out drunk and bang some skank in a back alley, I guess that could be viewed and just happening. Anything other than that ?

  7. #36
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    I'm impressed by how reasoned and measured the responses have been to this thread. Here's my take, for what it's worth.

    If it happened 4 years ago, and she's been faithful since, and you love her, and she loves you, I would advise you to forgive her and move on.

    I think you're probably assuming that you would never, ever consider cheating on her. But I think one day you might very well find this assumption to be sorely tested.

    I personally have mixed feelings about monogamy. The older I get, the more I come to conclude that monogamy is for many people an unreasonable demand/expectation. Some people are well-suited for monogamy, but others, both men and women, are not. Similarly, some people have very strong sex drives, others not so strong. To me, demanding that someone who is not well-suited to monogamy to be monogamous his/her own life is not too different from demanding that someone with same sex attractions refrain from acting on those attractions. (It should be clear from this that I see nothing inherently morally wrong with sex outside of marriage. I don't think sex all that big of a deal to merit so much moral angst.) There is only so much 'hypocrisy' and moral failing around sex in our culture because our culture has chosen to make such a big deal about it and adopt such a rigid religious-centric view of it--and marriage.

    I believe monogamy to be a mostly cultural construct and not an 'eternal' or 'natural' moral truth. It has not been the norm for as long as humans have existed--at least for men (although presumably they've been having sex with someone and not all of them are gay), and certainly has not been the norm among the privileged classes or among the powerful.

    Also, let's face it. Many people are not getting their emotional, psychological, and sexual needs met by their spouses, but are not at the same time willing to give up their children or their financial security or their marriage. Human relationships are complex and full of morally gray area, and over time, I find the black and white moral perspectives on these and other issues offered by a sexually uptight religious world view to be less and less satisfying, morally, intellectually, and just about every other way.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartsock View Post
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    If you are married, you have to try really hard to cheat. It doesn't just happen.
    You would be surprised. I know from substantial experience that this statement is not true. It can be and often is very easy to cheat, and it can and does just happen.

  9. #38
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    bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenHarris View Post
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    bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.
    I don't disagree. Relationships don't function well without trust, honesty, etc. Don't confuse my general feelings on the broader subject of monogamy from what I think about the specific case at hand.

    It may or may not be a religious issue in this specific case, but Western Culture's views of sex, marriage, and morality are infused through and through with religious beliefs/philosophies so much so that they simply cannot be separated. Thus, while in this case our friend may not see this as a religious issue, the cultural values that likely are influencing how he processes this event, have a definite and strong religious component. For whatever that's worth.

    I'm not trying to derail the post into a religious discussion either. Just sharing some things I've been thinking about that are somewhat related to the topic. You can take or leave them, doesn't matter to me.

    As a side note, I travel a lot for work and see first hand a great deal of sexual shenanigans going on. It has gotten me to thinking more about this issue and trying to understand it.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenHarris View Post
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    bro its not a religious thing at all, at least not for me and probz alot of other peoples. discuss theories and natural instincts all u want. if OP's ex felt it was natural then she shoulda just admitted it and came clean. the cheating act itself isnt really the problem bros. its the lying, hiding, etc.
    Yeah, basically this. You can't excuse past acts of deception by moralizing the subject of the deception. The crime, in my opinion, is more the deception than the act.

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