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  1. #1
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    Why is Marvin Starting Over Hayward?

    I am at loss trying to figure this out. With Favors, Kanter, and Burks playing well off the bench, it's not like we are in dire need a strong 6th man. Hayward was starting earlier in the year, and was not doing exceptionally well (albeit not bad either), and was benched. However, Marvin is playing much worse than Hayward was when he was a starter. And Hayward has dramatically improved since, is much younger, and has tons more upside, in addition to already being significantly better than Marvin today. Why does Hayward come off the bench and is averaging less minutes than last year, when his competition is Marvin Williams, and Gordon is producing at similar rate as the guy drafted right after him - all star Paul George? What is the logic behind this?


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    Speaking to the choir

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    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    You mean playing AT ALL?

    Answer: he's guaranteed pretty big money and is a nice guy. A recipe for success right there.

    For $15 million, I can be nice as ****.
    Mark Cuban is a ****ing sociopath.

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    Al Jefferson.

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    The better question is: Why is Marvin playing at all? Hayward isn't the only SF on the team significantly better than him.

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    Both Marvin and Hayward are averaging 26 mins per game. Yet Hayward is significantly better player in every department with higher upside playing the same exact position. Why can't he be given 40 mins per game like Paul George, who has very similar production rate and made all star team, and then give remaining minutes to the inferior player playing the same position - Williams? Isn't this painfully obvious? I know Jazz seem to pick coaches who make rather unorthodox decisions sometimes (which contradict common sense and never lead to anything good), but there has to be some reasoning behind starting Williams and giving him same minutes as Hayward. I just fail to see what it can possibly be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borat View Post
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    Both Marvin and Hayward are averaging 26 mins per game. Yet Hayward is significantly better player in every department with higher upside playing the same exact position. Why can't he be given 40 mins per game like Paul George, who has very similar production rate and made all star team, and then give remaining minutes to the inferior player playing the same position - Williams? Isn't this painfully obvious? I know Jazz seem to pick coaches who make rather unorthodox decisions sometimes (which contradict common sense and never lead to anything good), but there has to be some reasoning behind starting Williams and giving him same minutes as Hayward. I just fail to see what it can this possibly be.
    Because, even though everything they do is different than what SA does, the Jazz tell us they are developing their young players the same way the San Antonio does.

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    if you replace williams with hayward.
    hayward would suck.
    jefferson would suck the life out of hayward
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Both Marvin and Hayward are averaging 26 mins per game. Yet Hayward is significantly better player in every department with higher upside playing the same exact position. Why can't he be given 40 mins per game like Paul George, who has very similar production rate and made all star team, and then give remaining minutes to the inferior player playing the same position - Williams? Isn't this painfully obvious? I know Jazz seem to pick coaches who make rather unorthodox decisions sometimes (which contradict common sense and never lead to anything good), but there has to be some reasoning behind starting Williams and giving him same minutes as Hayward. I just fail to see what it can possibly be.
    99% of williams his minutes are shared with jeffersuck
    80% of haywards minutes are without jeffersuck
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Norm View Post
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    The better question is: Why is Marvin playing at all? Hayward isn't the only SF on the team significantly better than him.
    Well, I think Marvin picking up 8-10 mins behind Hayward is not too much of a stretch, after all he is not a complete disaster for a bench player. Yes, grossly overpaid, and makes KOC looks like an idiot for trading an expiring contract for him instead of having extra 8 mil of CAP space next year, especially when we already had Burks who showed promise and needed to be developed, but understandable as an 8-10 minutes back-up. As a starter though over Hayward? I know we are just fans, and coaches are closer to situation, but give me a break here - this is too obvious even if you are not with the team every day. Is there anyone here who really feels Marvin should be starting over Gordon right now and get same minutes?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Catchall's Avatar
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    Hard to admit Harris for Marvin was a bad trade. That's why. We took a step back on that one.
    bored shiftless...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borat View Post
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    Well, I think Marvin picking up 8-10 mins behind Hayward is not too much of a stretch, after all he is not a complete disaster for a bench player. Yes, grossly overpaid, and makes KOC looks like an idiot for trading an expiring contract for him instead of having extra 8 mil of CAP space next year, especially when we already had Burks who showed promise and needed to be developed, but understandable as an 8-10 minutes back-up. As a starter though over Hayward? I know we are just fans, and coaches are closer to situation, but give me a break here - this is too obvious even if you are not with the team every day. Is there anyone here who really feels Marvin should be starting over Gordon right now and get same minutes?
    You misunderstand - I'd rather give the SF minutes that Hayward doesn't play to Demarre. Check the numbers: The guy has been radically better than Marvin this season.

  13. #13
    Senior Member trigg3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
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    if you replace williams with hayward.
    hayward would suck.
    jefferson would suck the life out of hayward
    This. The starting lineup's offense is Big Al oriented. When you limit the number of touches Hayward gets, you minimize him as a player.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Eenie-Meenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Norm View Post
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    The better question is: Why is Marvin playing at all? Hayward isn't the only SF on the team significantly better than him.
    You got that right ... he has been a major disappointment.

  15. #15
    Senior Member t.work's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind seeing Carroll start at this point. I really like Hayward off of the bench.


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