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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by green View Post
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    Not at all. His example isn't unique either. Most of us are this way. We act all high and mighty when it comes to things we like, and stay away from things we don't like.

    It's quite simple. He held himself out as this "accepting of all people" person, by making a big deal about playing basketball with Magic.

    Yet at the same time, shunned an entire state of people because of his perceived stereotypes.

    It is what it is. We all do it. For example, in the Mormon faith, being obese is just as bad as smoking and drinking (the Word of Wisdom). Yet most of us look down on people that smoke and drink, yet we are obese.
    How do you know he shunned the entire state because of perceived stereotypes? There are perfectly legitimate reasons one might decide he/she doesn't like living here. Also perfectly legitimate reasons someone from Utah might not want to live in South Beach. And, I hate to be the one to point it out, but it's not all stereotypes. Utah does have an idiosyncratic and pervasive culture that obviously doesn't appeal to everyone. Can anyone deny that the LDS Church has a large impact on the culture of the state and what goes on here? I grew up with it and am used to it, but I can see how others would not find this an appealing part of living here. One CAN be open minded, charitable, etc. but still find living in a state dominated by an authority-based conservative religion, that is by the way arguably also homophobic or at least not friendly to gays and gay lifestyles, not to be to their liking.

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  3. #12
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    Win by UtahrBoozer

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomskull View Post
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    The Jazz made a trade for Rony Seikaly and he refused to play for us? The offer was: Greg Foster, Chris Morris and a first round pick. Both Morris and Foster had reported to the Magic while, Seikaly, was at home counting the rings he would never help us win. In his career he averaged 14.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, and 1.29 bpg. and had a crazy low post spin. The Jazz had, Ostertag, a fine specimen indeed, who in his career averaged 4.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 1.7 bpg.

    What is the point of this thread you ask? well I don't know I'm still trying to flesh it out, but when I get there, I promise it will be beautiful.
    Rony Seikaly insists Jazz nixed the trade
    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...the-trade.html

    What if Rony Seikaly Showed Up?
    https://www.utahjazz360.com/danhanse...aly-showed-up/


    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
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    Did that draft pick end up being Kirilenko?
    Nazr Mohammed (traded to Philly for '99 pick, Quincy Lewis)
    i may quote myself from other treads... sue me!

  5. #14
    Senior Member JimLes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy eat jazz View Post
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    How do you know he shunned the entire state because of perceived stereotypes? There are perfectly legitimate reasons one might decide he/she doesn't like living here. Also perfectly legitimate reasons someone from Utah might not want to live in South Beach. And, I hate to be the one to point it out, but it's not all stereotypes. Utah does have an idiosyncratic and pervasive culture that obviously doesn't appeal to everyone. Can anyone deny that the LDS Church has a large impact on the culture of the state and what goes on here? I grew up with it and am used to it, but I can see how others would not find this an appealing part of living here. One CAN be open minded, charitable, etc. but still find living in a state dominated by an authority-based conservative religion, that is by the way arguably also homophobic or at least not friendly to gays and gay lifestyles, not to be to their liking.
    No one is asking NBA players to live in Utah that you describe. That's the point here and that's my beef with all these players who refuse to play in certain places.

    NBA players aren't regular people like you and me. They're multimillionaires whose lives are so radically different than ours, they can live in the same state and city as you and me and be completely oblivious to all the things you listed. They don't affect them. I don't know where exactly Jazz players usually live, but I know it's not freaking Logan. How exactly do you figure the Church would dominate their lives? Does it suck being black and non-LDS in Utah? I'm sure it does, but I'm also sure that being black in Utah and being Derrick Favors in Utah are two very different things. The world of an NBA star is a world of gated mansions, celebrity friends and private parties. They don't live in the same Utah you do.

    On top of that, what exactly are we talking about here? How much time does a Jazz player have to spend in Utah. The NBA training camp starts the first week of October. The season ends anywhere from mid-April to mid-June, depending on how good your team is. You don't have to live in Utah outside the season. That's potentially 5 months you can live wherever the hell you want, including South Beach. You have to live in Utah some 200 days of the year. You play at least 41 games on the road each year, which is 41 nights you're definitely not in Utah. Add about 40-50 days where you are traveling to and from games, including those wonderful East Coast trips when you're gone for 8 or 10 days at a time. When you add things up, I'd be surprised if the number of nights a Jazz player is forced to spend sleeping in his own bed in Utah is much more than a 100. That's less than a third of the whole year. And it's not like if you do end up living in Miami, you can just play every game at home and spend 356 days a year partying with fine South Beach ladies. You still spend couple of months' worth on the road, in Milwaukees, Portlands, Salt Lake Cities and Minneapolises of the nation.

    But no, NBA players act like playing for the Jazz means that for 3 years, you are forced to stay withing 30 km of downtown SLC and are not allowed to have any booze, strippers, beaches, and all those other things that NBA players apparently can't live without.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLes View Post
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    No one is asking NBA players to live in Utah that you describe. That's the point here and that's my beef with all these players who refuse to play in certain places.

    NBA players aren't regular people like you and me. They're multimillionaires whose lives are so radically different than ours, they can live in the same state and city as you and me and be completely oblivious to all the things you listed. They don't affect them. I don't know where exactly Jazz players usually live, but I know it's not freaking Logan. How exactly do you figure the Church would dominate their lives? Does it suck being black and non-LDS in Utah? I'm sure it does, but I'm also sure that being black in Utah and being Derrick Favors in Utah are two very different things. The world of an NBA star is a world of gated mansions, celebrity friends and private parties. They don't live in the same Utah you do.

    On top of that, what exactly are we talking about here? How much time does a Jazz player have to spend in Utah. The NBA training camp starts the first week of October. The season ends anywhere from mid-April to mid-June, depending on how good your team is. You don't have to live in Utah outside the season. That's potentially 5 months you can live wherever the hell you want, including South Beach. You have to live in Utah some 200 days of the year. You play at least 41 games on the road each year, which is 41 nights you're definitely not in Utah. Add about 40-50 days where you are traveling to and from games, including those wonderful East Coast trips when you're gone for 8 or 10 days at a time. When you add things up, I'd be surprised if the number of nights a Jazz player is forced to spend sleeping in his own bed in Utah is much more than a 100. That's less than a third of the whole year. And it's not like if you do end up living in Miami, you can just play every game at home and spend 356 days a year partying with fine South Beach ladies. You still spend couple of months' worth on the road, in Milwaukees, Portlands, Salt Lake Cities and Minneapolises of the nation.

    But no, NBA players act like playing for the Jazz means that for 3 years, you are forced to stay withing 30 km of downtown SLC and are not allowed to have any booze, strippers, beaches, and all those other things that NBA players apparently can't live without.
    I have neither said nor implied that the LDS Church would dominate the lives of any NBA player. I am merely trying to put myself in their shoes and try to understand why some may not see SLC as a desirable career destination, without accusing them of being anti-Mormon, or anti-Utah, or guilty of crass stereotyping.

    And yet, despite everything you've said above, NBA players DO factor in living situations, culture, recreational opportunities, interests, promotional opportunities, etc. when deciding on potential free agency destinations. And in doing so, they naturally perceive some locations as more desirable than others. What is wrong with this? Different people like different things, and we ought not always try to find nefarious reasons to explain why some people's perceptions and preferences are different from ours.

  7. #16
    First BF League CHAMP nightmare3983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy eat jazz View Post
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    I have neither said nor implied that the LDS Church would dominate the lives of any NBA player. I am merely trying to put myself in their shoes and try to understand why some may not see SLC as a desirable career destination, without accusing them of being anti-Mormon, or anti-Utah, or guilty of crass stereotyping.

    And yet, despite everything you've said above, NBA players DO factor in living situations, culture, recreational opportunities, interests, promotional opportunities, etc. when deciding on potential free agency destinations. And in doing so, they naturally perceive some locations as more desirable than others. What is wrong with this? Different people like different things, and we ought not always try to find nefarious reasons to explain why some people's perceptions and preferences are different from ours.
    It's one thing for a player to look at that as a FA, but as an NBA player without a no-trade clause, the risk of being traded is part of the business and should be handled professionally.

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