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  1. #196
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftyjace View Post
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    Pretty good tuneup game for us. Did everything it was supposed to do. Exposed a few more weaknesses and things that we need to work on while also giving us an opportunity to get more used to the new offense. All in all, it could have been a lot better, yes, but it also could've been a lot worse for us.

    I'm pretty excited about Tyler Huntley.

    BYU will be fine. I know it's a disappointing loss but it wasn't altogether unexpected.
    @NOAS
    This ute fan gets what I'm trying to say.
    Gobert is eating souls out there

    Snyder’s resting facial expression resembles that of a shiv-wielding prisoner

    Quinn will let the team eat tonight now

    Quinn snyder has definitely killed multiple hookers right?
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  3. #197
    Senior Member Cappy_Smurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Stern View Post
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    Basically you have two decades where the programs were basically at the same level, and now a decade where one team is superior to the other.

    My thoughts are that there is absolutely a difference in the talent level of these programs right now, but BYU can close the gap. Bronco was a terrible recruiter, and I honestly believe that is the difference in the rivalry right now. Kalani is a much better recruiter, but unfortunately we're still almost two seasons away from seeing "his" guys here because of the mission thing. I've seen you guys ranked between 20-40 the last few years, and I think that's pretty much going to be the ceiling of what Utah can expect. Getting those kind of recruiting classes on a consistent basis is a great thing for your program, but my point is that you're probably not going to see the gap in talent between the two programs grow any more than it has at this point.
    Yeah, I think you're kidding yourself if you believe the recruiting issue is an individual problem that can fixed by bringing in a better recruiter. BYU has multiple disadvantages in recruiting, some of which could possibly be fixed, and some that never will, and just come with the territory. Right now, kids can see 2 schools that have gone in 2 different directions. Good luck convincing them that water isn't wet and the sky isn't blue.

    See____You_____Next_____Tuesday____Haywood

  4. #198
    Senior Member //r00t 4 Jazz's Avatar
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    I didn't mind Whit going for it on 4th down (even if math told me you kick the FG to make it 3 possessions or 2x TD's and 2x 2pt conversions) I just didn't like the play call it was basically the same play call as they ran except this time Huntley handed it to Moss when the blocking scheme seemed designed for him to keep it and go right.

    I see plenty of things to disparage Huntley on but none of it can't be filed under "young" and "growing pains" but he's over thrown 3-4 TD's in 2 games, was late on reads/didn't trust his first read (if he saw it) but I am impressed with his demeanor and remaining calm when ***** hits the fan. He's had so many snaps at his feet and managed to still make plays out of it, so that combined with his running and throwing on the run along with these are just growing pain mistakes have me excited for the future.


    There must be a point of emphasis on offensive penalties this year, I've never seen this many called in a season let a lone in 2 games, I remember being frustrated watching conference games thinking wish they'd call penalties on the WR's and now these are being called when in past years there were plays twice as bad never called (the WR holds and PI's specifically). I just hope other teams in the PAC12 get these called cause I see them just about every damn game against teams playing press man coverage, which is what the U wants to play the majority of the time.
    #20COWARD

  5. #199
    Senior Member David Stern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    You respond to 'cherry-picking' by (a) cherry-picking yourself and (b) putting all your faith in players that haven't played in a game yet (which is just another flavor of cherry picking since it places faith in what you'd like to be a faithful depiction of reality).

    Good for you?
    I'm not sure what your argument is here, but I think the only stat that is relevant in this discussion is the fact that Utah has won 7 straight. I was just disputing the fact that this has been a 25 year turnaround where Utah suddenly started dominating the rivalry. It's only been within the last 7 years, it was even before that.

    And while I don't expect you to follow BYU recruiting heavily, they've missed on guys that Bronco was too lazy to recruit, and I expect that to turn around under Kalani. Sorry but there's nothing in my post that is too far fetched to believe.

  6. #200
    Senior Member jazzman12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Stern View Post
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    ....I was just disputing the fact that this has been a 25 year turnaround where Utah suddenly started dominating the rivalry. It's only been within the last 7 years, it was even before that....
    All I can say to this statement is....WOW. Utah has won 17 of the last 24 rivalry games. Lavell was 3-5 in his last 8. Crowton was 1-3. Bronco 3-7, and Kilani 0-2. It's been a mighty long time since a BYU coach has had an above .500 stretch vs Utah. In fact, over the last 30 years, Utah's played above .500 football in the rivalry. Lavell struggled to beat Utah in the last decade of his career and every BYU coach since hasn't been able to muster even a .500 record vs Utah. The tide in this rivalry absolutely began to turn 25+ years ago.

    The fact of the matter is that BYU absolutely dominated the rivalry in the Lavell era until McBride was hired. McBride basically brought Utah back to the point where they could play BYU evenly (he was 1 game under .500 vs BYU during his Utah tenure) and since the Urban/Whitt era, we have seen Utah take a firm grasp of the series (Utah's 11-3 vs BYU since the Meyer hiring).

    I constantly hear BYU fans talk about getting back to the Lavell era dominance of the rivalry, but I just don't see it happening. Hell, even with all the games Lavell won against Utah, the Utes still enjoy nearly a 30 win advantage in the overall series. To say that it's just been the last 7 years in which Utah has separated from BYU just isn't true.
    Last edited by jazzman12; 09-12-2017 at 05:22 AM.

  7. #201
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
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    All I can say to this statement is....WOW. Utah has won 17 of the last 24 rivalry games. Lavell was 3-5 in his last 8. Crowton was 1-3. Bronco 3-7, and Kilani 0-2. It's been a mighty long time since a BYU coach has had an above .500 stretch vs Utah. In fact, over the last 30 years, Utah's played above .500 football in the rivalry. Lavell struggled to beat Utah in the last decade of his career and every BYU coach since has been able to muster even a .500 record vs Utah. The tide in this rivalry absolutely began to turn 25+ years ago.

    The fact of the matter is that BYU absolutely dominated the rivalry in the Lavell era until McBride was hired. McBride basically brought Utah back to the point where they could play BYU evenly (he was 1 game under .500 vs BYU during his Utah tenure) and since the Urban/Whitt era, we have seen Utah take a firm grasp of the series (Utah's 11-3 vs BYU since the Meyer hiring).

    I constantly hear BYU fans talk about getting back to the Lavell era dominance of the rivalry, but I just don't see it happening. Hell, even with all the games Lavell won against Utah, the Utes still enjoy nearly a 30 win advantage in the overall series. To say that it's just been the last 7 years in which Utah has separated from BYU just isn't true.
    dat new recruiting doe. NEAR TOTAL FAITH BECAUSE OF TEH EVIDENCE.
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  8. #202
    Senior Member gregbroncs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
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    It sounds like you're saying that Utah 'didn't play like crap' (i.e. they were good), and BYU played poorly, and yet it was still a close game. In other words, it sounds like a strange backdoor-style silver lining for BYU fans. Which is funny.

    Every account of the game suggests that Utah was guilty of plenty of unforced/self-inflicted errors which, despite the wide gap in talent between teams, put the game in jeopardy. <--- that is one fool-proof definition of playing poorly. There are others. But, yeah, that's one.
    This was my point that he was arguing about with me. Utah played poorly because the talent gap and the way the game was played should have been a 3 TD+ win for Utah. That they only won by 6 despite those factors means they played poorly IMO.
    Playoffs here we come. Pass the damn Kool-Aid

  9. #203
    Senior Member jazzman12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbroncs View Post
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    This was my point that he was arguing about with me. Utah played poorly because the talent gap and the way the game was played should have been a 3 TD+ win for Utah. That they only won by 6 despite those factors means they played poorly IMO.
    Count me in. That game definitely wasn't Utah playing a good, complete game. Defense was great, special teams wasn't good considering the long kick return BYU had, Oline was good in pass pro, bad in the run game, RB's weren't good and also gave up a fumble, WR's were good, Huntley was good. For me it comes down to penalties and the "pick" play Utah got called for. I'm sure BYU fans will disagree but there's no way that was a penalty. On the replay you can literally watch the outside BYU DB hesitate on which WR to cover and make the mistake of covering the inside WR. He had as much to do with creating contact as Utah's WR did. Horrible, horrible call that cost Utah a TD. Other than that, Utah's discipline has been astoundingly bad. The amount of penalties in the first 2 games has got to be a school record. They absolutely have to clean it up by the time conference play rolls around.

  10. #204
    Free at last!!! bigb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
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    Count me in. That game definitely wasn't Utah playing a good, complete game. Defense was great, special teams wasn't good considering the long kick return BYU had, Oline was good in pass pro, bad in the run game, RB's weren't good and also gave up a fumble, WR's were good, Huntley was good. For me it comes down to penalties and the "pick" play Utah got called for. I'm sure BYU fans will disagree but there's no way that was a penalty. On the replay you can literally watch the outside BYU DB hesitate on which WR to cover and make the mistake of covering the inside WR. He had as much to do with creating contact as Utah's WR did. Horrible, horrible call that cost Utah a TD. Other than that, Utah's discipline has been astoundingly bad. The amount of penalties in the first 2 games has got to be a school record. They absolutely have to clean it up by the time conference play rolls around.
    IMO, that wasn't a pick route. That was two BYU DB's covering the same guy. It was a pick route that BYU ran.
    ​Gobert or go home

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  11. #205
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
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    Count me in. That game definitely wasn't Utah playing a good, complete game. Defense was great, special teams wasn't good considering the long kick return BYU had, Oline was good in pass pro, bad in the run game, RB's weren't good and also gave up a fumble, WR's were good, Huntley was good. For me it comes down to penalties and the "pick" play Utah got called for. I'm sure BYU fans will disagree but there's no way that was a penalty. On the replay you can literally watch the outside BYU DB hesitate on which WR to cover and make the mistake of covering the inside WR. He had as much to do with creating contact as Utah's WR did. Horrible, horrible call that cost Utah a TD. Other than that, Utah's discipline has been astoundingly bad. The amount of penalties in the first 2 games has got to be a school record. They absolutely have to clean it up by the time conference play rolls around.
    Nobody was arguing that utah played a good complete game. Just that they didn't play like crap. Defense, special teams, huntley, the receivers all played too well for the team as a whole to have played like crap.
    The refs making a bad call on the pick play doesn't mean that was utah playing like crap imo.... I think that was a good play that the crappy pac12 official blew.

    It was a road, rivalry game played with tons of young replacement players with a new offense in the 2nd game of the year. I expected lots of mistakes from the utes. Apparently most ute fans expected a nearly flawless performance and blowout win despite the fact that that almost never happens and Vegas had this game as basically a pick em.
    Last edited by fishonjazz; 09-13-2017 at 06:04 AM.
    Gobert is eating souls out there

    Snyder’s resting facial expression resembles that of a shiv-wielding prisoner

    Quinn will let the team eat tonight now

    Quinn snyder has definitely killed multiple hookers right?

  12. #206
    Senior Member jazzman12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
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    Nobody was arguing that utah played a good complete game. Just that they didn't play like crap. Defense, special teams, huntley, the receivers all played too well for the team as a whole to have played like crap.
    The refs making a bad call on the pick play doesn't mean that was utah playing like crap imo.... I think that was a good play that the crappy pac12 official blew.

    It was a road, rivalry game played with tons of young replacement players with a new offense in the 2nd game of the year. I expected lots of mistakes from the utes. Apparently most ute fans expected a nearly flawless performance and blowout win despite the fact that that almost never happens and Vegas had this game as basically a pick em.
    I don't expect the Utes to play flawless, but I also think it's fair to call them out for the penalties and lack of discipline. I also think that because of those issues, its fair for Ute fans to come away from that game underwhelmed with the performance. Hell, I forgot to add the countless snaps that were at Huntley's feet that seemed to disrupt the timing of their plays all night long.

    I knew it would be ugly to an extent- it always is. That being said, BYU is having offensive struggles that probably rank right up there as some of the worst offensive production in school history. You gotta put a team away in that situation. It seemed like every time Utah put themselves in a position to step on their throat and put the game to bed, a bad snap, a fumble, turnover on downs, or a penalty would inevitably pop up in those moments and breath life back into BYU.

    A rivalry win is a rivalry win. I'll never look down on winning 7 straight in this series. But looking forward to the rest of the season, Utah hasn't been good so far and certainly isn't anywhere near where they need to be if they hope to compete in conference. The problems they have are correctable, so I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I certainly think what we saw last Saturday was closer to crap than it was good.
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  13. #207
    Premium Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    On 2nd thought, why am I arguing that the utes looked ok?
    You ute fans are right. I agree with you, the utes suck.
    Gobert is eating souls out there

    Snyder’s resting facial expression resembles that of a shiv-wielding prisoner

    Quinn will let the team eat tonight now

    Quinn snyder has definitely killed multiple hookers right?
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  14. #208
    Senior Member jazzman12's Avatar
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    Wow, nobody said they suck. Way to change the narrative.

  15. #209
    Formerly Broncster Ron Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
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    Wow, nobody said they suck. Way to change the narrative.
    Really, I thought I had.

    Utes suck, feel better?



    I was talked into watching this game with friends. I can honestly say this was the most boring football game I have watched in a long time. Both teams looked ****ty. Utes qb looked like he has potential. The best player on the field for either team was a Ducks cast off. The only player worth anything for byu was the middle linebacker. Honestly Utah might be pretty bad this year if this game came down to dropped passes by byu to win the game.

    Utah had more talent, played better and won the game. That doesn't happen often in this rivalry. Although Utah gave byu a dream scenario. Down by 6 with a couple timeouts, the ball and enough time in the clock to win the game. To bad byu has a ****ty line, no play makers on offense, no receiver with hands, a really really bad offensive coordinator(seriously a 12 year old kid playing Madden could do a better job) and a quarterback that's meh at best.

    Hopefully for Utah's sake they just played down to their competition. Which I honestly think might have been the case. It's hard to play well against a team that inept.

  16. #210
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
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    Wow, nobody said they suck. Way to change the narrative.
    maintain narrative cohesion, forming arguments, etc..... not his strong suit.
    {size/HUGE} RUDY {/size}

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